WFA, bus pass, triple lock,

Well said, Dinahmo

In 1966 when I was 19 I moved to London. After a short spell in an hostel I shared a flat with 2 others. We paid £12 per week for a one bed roomed flat. The bath was part of the kitchen with an ancient geyser which was constantly threatening to blow up. The windows were painted shut so it was impossible to open them and the flat was very damp.

I worked for insurance companies to start with. Girls were always on a lower salary than boys. We couldn't wear trousers to work. There was an excellent company called Stirling cooper which made matching dresses and trousers so not scruffy.

It was not possible to enter an employer's pension scheme until one had worked for them for 2 to 3 years. Most of my working life was with small companies who did not have pension schemes and we were expected to fund our own scheme. As most of my earnings from 1979 went into paying our mortgage there was no surplus for pensions. It was only in the mid 80s that we went into Equitable Life and we all know what happened to that company.

In the mid 70s I went into articles with a small firm of accountants. At that time the female intake into that profession and the law was only 3%.

There were no cheap flights/holidays in the 60s. Freddie Laker started his company in 1966 but collapsed because of the 80s recession, under funding and competition from established airlines. Ryanair did not start until 1984 and Easyjet in 1995.

We bought our first house in 1979 - a wreck - and I borrowed some of the deposit from my Dad who had recently sold his mother's house so he had some spare cash. The rest was my tax savings as I was self employed at the time. Getting a mortgage was very difficult because of the state of the house.
We had to find a deposit of 20% - around £4k. We only managed it because a colleague had become the accountant of a small London building society,

So, contrary to popular opinion, life was not easy for those now in their 70s. These days young people seem to want to be able to buy a house whilst in their early 20s whereas most of my contemporaries didn't buy a house until their very late 20s or early 30s.

Part of the difference now is SM. It didn't exist when I was young and so we didn't see how other people lived, apart from our friends who were similar to us in many ways.

Of course.

MissAdventure

I wonder how many people with incontinence choose not to wear tena lady?

Lots of people mention them with regard to incontinence.

Maybe they should wear terrytowelling ones and handwash them?So much better for the planet.
#yesthisisajoke

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Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

silverlining48

I still don’t understand why there are two classes of state pension. I worked full time and paid NI from 15 to 60, that’s 45 years. Retiring before 2016 I get the lower rate which is about £200 pm less than the new, which only needs 35 years of NI to get the full pension. If state pension is raised each year percentage wise, this gapwill widen.

I am happy for those on the new much improved pension, I really am, but think it’s unfair on older pensioners who have contributed fir so long not to get parity. Perhaps they hope we die off quietly and cause no trouble.

I did write a while ago to my now ex Tory MP, got no sensible explanation but might repeat to my new Labour MP and see if he can enlighten me.

I’m in the same group silverlining. Started work at 17 and continued till I was 62. 45 years with 1 year off in 1972 though I worked from home in the evening, typing reports. 7 months mat leave in 1984, 6 month mat leave in 1986.

I also agree with your earlier post. Life was easier for a small minority.

I dislike this divide and rule between generations. My impression is that the disgruntled on mumsnet are reflecting distance and resentment in the relationship with their parents. We see it here, grandparents who feel let down by their adult children. I’m not suggesting either group is wrong, just thst personal experiences influence us

Dickens

hollysteers

RosiesMaw2

westendgirl

Yes and we had huge interest rates,no maternity leave. (I had to resign from my teaching post), no child allowance for the first child, heavy pushchairs which had to be collapsed when getting on buses,the cheap flights and holidays were difficult to get if you were a single mum with one child.Mortgages were 2 1/2 times salary with no exceptions.Power cuts, towelling nappies to boil, and so it goes on . I think most generations have their difficulties.

Hear, hear

I think we should go back to towelling nappies. Disposable are disgusting, apart from emergencies or travelling,

I think we should go back to towelling nappies. Disposable are disgusting, apart from emergencies or travelling,

Are you aware that not all mothers have access to a garden or utility room in which to hang the towelling nappies?

Some live in rented accommodation with no such facilities and would have to drape them over radiators or hang them on lines strung up in the kitchen. Or visit the launderette every night after soaking the nappies in a bucket when they get home from work.

OK, emergencies, travelling and no drying facilities 👍

I wonder how many people with incontinence choose not to wear tena lady?

Lots of people mention them with regard to incontinence.

hollysteers

RosiesMaw2

westendgirl

Yes and we had huge interest rates,no maternity leave. (I had to resign from my teaching post), no child allowance for the first child, heavy pushchairs which had to be collapsed when getting on buses,the cheap flights and holidays were difficult to get if you were a single mum with one child.Mortgages were 2 1/2 times salary with no exceptions.Power cuts, towelling nappies to boil, and so it goes on . I think most generations have their difficulties.

Hear, hear

I think we should go back to towelling nappies. Disposable are disgusting, apart from emergencies or travelling,

I think we should go back to towelling nappies. Disposable are disgusting, apart from emergencies or travelling,

Are you aware that not all mothers have access to a garden or utility room in which to hang the towelling nappies?

Some live in rented accommodation with no such facilities and would have to drape them over radiators or hang them on lines strung up in the kitchen. Or visit the launderette every night after soaking the nappies in a bucket when they get home from work.

There must be some method of ensuring that the necessary funds go to people who are on the cusp (because of a small occupational pension) and not giving them to people who are still comfortably off. The WFP should be available to everyone who is on a means tested benefit - including housing and council tax benefit.
As long as there is means-testing there will be people on the cusp, even if the cusp moves a bit. That's how it works.

I don't disagree with anyone, but I think it's pointless to keep making comparisons between our generations and those of young people. Times are different. They have opportunities that most of us didn't (travel, education, freedoms of all kinds), and we had things that they don't (cheaper housing with social housing as a fallback, free university for those who went, better career opportunities, universal child benefit and so on). Young people (and older ones) spend money on things that weren't available to us at their age - the infamous flatscreen TVs, iPhones and avocados, but however old we are, we will have had things that our parents didn't.

WRT the new/old pensions, the new one kicks in 6-7 years after the old, there is no widow's element, and no opportunity to increase it by paying more in. Not everyone on the old system gets less than on the new. My mother gets more than I will get and she only worked for a few years, starting in her 50s and retiring at 55. It is made up of SERPS and my father's pension (which also had a SERPS element) which she inherited.

I am at the younger end of the 'Boomer' group, and could make unfavourable comparisons with the previous one, and even with the older 'Boomers' (MIRAS, mortgages payable on one salary, stable employment, pensions at 60 for women, no bills to put children through university etc). But that would be to ignore the blatant sexism that was still there 'in my day', but was much worse for my mother. It's never like for like, is it?

biglouis

People in younger generations forget that many pensioners still work in an employed job and are therefore paying tax. Or they work as carers or volunteers, thus saving the country thousands of pounds.

There is this misapprehension of all pensioners as "rich boomers" (how I hate that expression) who are sitting on their asses in million pound houses. When in fact for every rich pensioner that are probably two who are struggling or just about managing. The problem is that the just about managing are probably going to be pushed into poverty by this short sighted measure and the prices being charged by greedy power companies.

There must be some method of ensuring that the necessary funds go to people who are on the cusp (because of a small occupational pension) and not giving them to people who are still comfortably off. The WFP should be available to everyone who is on a means tested benefit - including housing and council tax benefit.

Yes, I agree.

I still don’t understand why there are two classes of state pension. I worked full time and paid NI from 15 to 60, that’s 45 years. Retiring before 2016 I get the lower rate which is about £200 pm less than the new, which only needs 35 years of NI to get the full pension. If state pension is raised each year percentage wise, this gapwill widen.

I am happy for those on the new much improved pension, I really am, but think it’s unfair on older pensioners who have contributed fir so long not to get parity. Perhaps they hope we die off quietly and cause no trouble.

I did write a while ago to my now ex Tory MP, got no sensible explanation but might repeat to my new Labour MP and see if he can enlighten me.

I wish there was something pensioners could strike about.

"Just to be clear, I am not signing anything that endeavours to restore the WFA wholesale, only petitions that will raise the cut-off bar - delayed until next year. Because they can do that if they want to".

I've actually written to the three petitions currently out which all have an all or nothing approach and asked "please can you have a petition that raises the cut off point and gives notice" to no avail, I'm a L party member frustrated by this but will keep trying with my MP etc.

I really think to will make all the difference to remove the fear but raise money from the better off for other aspects of care that we need as older people.

I’m starting to see comments (not on GN), but in the Times with ire directed at ”rich entitled Gen X’ers and their 2nd homes” rather than “greedy rich boomers” just recently. I suppose give it time and vitriol will be directed at millennials by Gen Z’ers.

RosiesMaw2

westendgirl

Yes and we had huge interest rates,no maternity leave. (I had to resign from my teaching post), no child allowance for the first child, heavy pushchairs which had to be collapsed when getting on buses,the cheap flights and holidays were difficult to get if you were a single mum with one child.Mortgages were 2 1/2 times salary with no exceptions.Power cuts, towelling nappies to boil, and so it goes on . I think most generations have their difficulties.

Hear, hear

I think we should go back to towelling nappies. Disposable are disgusting, apart from emergencies or travelling,

The feeling amongst many of the young is that they will never have what we have. I started work at 15 and have worked all my life. They would like that chance. Renting a home is more difficult now as is buying one. I recognise their feelings, I would feel the same in their place no doubt My husband started an apprenticeship at 15, low wage for 6 years, there were plenty of jobs then though at the end of it.. You try finding such an apprenticeship now, we've no industries l left. You can’t blame them for feeling let down. My hardworking husband took nothing out of the country but paid in until he died of cancer at 60. Im keeping going as long as i can.

As a single-parent around that time - I had a run-of-the-mill, full-time, fairly reasonably paid job with holiday and sick pay; affordable and secure accommodation and energy bills; and child-care. All from one wage - and still a little left over each month for the odd 'treat'.

I’m not sure how either.

Living in a flat and trying to save for a deposit wasn’t easy. It took us 2 years.
No maternity leave or the right to return to your job if you hadn’t worked long enough and a one off minuscule payment (though I was grateful at the time).
Consequently I couldn’t afford child care until I was working again and in teaching, you were still asked about existing and planned children😱.

I kept a ledger of all bills and payments in and out so we could see when baked bean weeks were essential.
How I’d have loved a WFP. We could have bought loads more paraffin for our stoves, but of course I’d have been too young.

I applied for and got free milk for a while, but the warning was strict If your circumstances change and you do not declare it you could be liable for prosecution! DH’s small pay rise made me very nervous, but evidently we were still poor enough to qualify.
We even got free birth control if you didn’t mind going to the clinic and standing in a queue waiting to be asked how many condoms you needed and being obliged to accept pessaries as well.
I feel for the young today, with house prices the way they are, the necessity of having a mobile phone etc. but I don’t see that the older folk are any less deserving.

As a single-parent around that time - I had a run-of-the-mill, full-time, fairly reasonably paid job with holiday and sick pay; affordable and secure accommodation and energy bills; and child-care. All from one wage - and still a little left over each month for the odd 'treat'.

I'm not sure how!
In the 1969s/70s it took two full-time salaries to save for two years for a deposit for a house and furnish it with mainly second-hand furniture.

In the early 1980s we moved to London and existed, rather than lived, I rushed out in the evenings to a mundane job as soon as DH got home from work in order to pay for extras - like Christmas..
Home-made or second-hand clothes, watching the overdraft anxiously.
So I do know what it's like to struggle even with one of us in a managerial position.

Doodledog

I agree that the young have a very hard time, and I also agree that we did't have life handed to us on a plate.

It's more of the 'divide and rule' that we see everywhere these days. If people can blame other groups of people they aren't blaming the government. I think it was Dominic Cummings who started the 'intergenerational unfairness' unit, or whatever it was. It started myths about avocados and Starbucks stopping the young from buying houses, as well as cheap houses that are now worth millions and grants with free university for older people. There is some truth in all of it, but it is a gross oversimplification.

I think it was Dominic Cummings who started the 'intergenerational unfairness' unit, or whatever it was.

I think the Intergenerational Foundation was set up by Angus Hanton, not sure about Cummings although he did set up other Think Tanks.

What is Cummings doing now? I doubt he's busy looking after an allotment in Barnard's Castle.

As a pensioner I'm not eligible for pension credit but. as I understand things I get the same as those on it but now not eligible for the winter payments what's that if I was eligible for pension credit id be better off

Madgran77

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them. The point being if those benefits were offered today they would take them. Benefits change. That's life! Generational blaming is pointless and divisive!

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them.

I believe the thinking is that we had those benefits - but then largely, though not exclusively, voted for a government determined to remove them. In other words, we pulled up the ladder behind us. Because 'socialist' principles "don't work".

That is how it was explained to me. And, to be fair, to a degree they have a point.

As a single-parent around that time - I had a run-of-the-mill, full-time, fairly reasonably paid job with holiday and sick pay; affordable and secure accommodation and energy bills; and child-care. All from one wage - and still a little left over each month for the odd 'treat'.

How many one-parent families can have that now? Unless they are high-flyers?

I agree that the young have a very hard time, and I also agree that we did't have life handed to us on a plate.

It's more of the 'divide and rule' that we see everywhere these days. If people can blame other groups of people they aren't blaming the government. I think it was Dominic Cummings who started the 'intergenerational unfairness' unit, or whatever it was. It started myths about avocados and Starbucks stopping the young from buying houses, as well as cheap houses that are now worth millions and grants with free university for older people. There is some truth in all of it, but it is a gross oversimplification.

Life was difficult when I was younger. Jumping through hoops for a mortgage -we saved for several years to afford a deposit.

We still had to put in the effort to be first in the queue when a house came up for sale,
Mortgages cost less, but pay was a lot less. When we finally managed to get a mortgage on a small house, I had £6pw for shopping after we’d put away for bills, rates etc. and DH walked the 5 miles into work to save on bus fare. We only holidayed with relations until my eldest was 12 then we camped.
On the other hand fewer people needed more than one home to be happy and programmes like Homes Under the Hammer hadn’t boosted the money making potential of buying up properties that less well off could afford.
We did have access to a doctor and a dentist, but we don’t now, any more than young people do.

What we did have that was easier, was no expectation of all the must haves that young people have now.
Must haves like mobile phones, subscriptions to apps,
contact lenses,
endless new clothes, even if only from Primark,
and anything else influencers tell them they must have.