WFA, bus pass, triple lock,

that, not about. I wish there was an amendment option on this site.

One day, these people will be elderly. I hope that the younger generations then won’t be as contemptuous as some seem to be now.
I’d like to point out, too, that many pensioners also pay tax - once income reaches above the £12500 tax free threshold then tax becomes payable on anything above that threshold. There are very few extremely wealthy pensioners.
Also, it’s a bit of a myth about our generation “never had it so good” - there have always been times of struggle, with some having greater difficulties than others. This will never change. Blaming previous generations for the troubles of the present is pointless.

Madgran77

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them. The point being if those benefits were offered today they would take them. Benefits change. That's life! Generational blaming is pointless and divisive!

I couldn't agree more, but that doesn't mean that I can't try to understand their grievances.. I know life is difficult for a huge number of people young and old.. I am grateful for my earlier life is all...

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

I do get that they may feel resentful they dont have those benefits. However there is little point blaming the older generation who had them. The point being if those benefits were offered today they would take them. Benefits change. That's life! Generational blaming is pointless and divisive!

Teacher Training, 2 years the. First post in September 1959, SE London, first pay check £36. Three of us shared a 2 bedroomed flat, rent £36 so £12 month each. £1 each per week in kitty for food. We could afford trains home for a weekend every few weeks, occasional Thursday evenings shopping at C&A Oxford Street, West End theatre shows enjoyed from the gods when we felt like it - Oliver!, West Side Story and many more. And this was before the 60s really began to swing! Happy Days! Work? Classes of 40+ but we enjoyed it and so did the kids!

David49

“Life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2020 to 2022 was 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females; compared with 2017 to 2019, life expectancy has fallen by 38 weeks from 79.3 years for males and by 23 weeks from 83.0 years for females.”

I’m sure Covid did lower the average somewhat, but the trend is ever upwards, moreover we are healthier for longer because of ever more expensive treatments to keep us healthy

This was never envisaged in 1947 when lifespan for men was only 65 and women 70. The NHS payments we make are totally inadequate to pay for our continuing care, even contributions by the current working generations cannot make up the shortfall.

25% of pensioners “needing” WFA is entirely my guess, but I guess 90% want it.

25% of pensioners “needing” WFA is entirely my guess, but I guess 90% want it.

Yes - I want it - it means I don't have to withdraw from my savings which have been ear-marked for a new boiler, walk-in shower for my disabled partner, and a new roof for my Grade11 listed house which due to it being Grade11 means I am limited to the material I'm allowed to use = more expensive.

However.

I am not going to be cold because I can pay the bill; I don't have to make a choice between the 'heating-or-eating' dilemma, and I'm not going to have sleepless nights worrying about the next fuel bill. So, personally, if it's a case of "we're all in this together" then I'd happily accept the withdrawal.

But here's the thing. Two things.

Those just above the pension credit bar - that supposed 25%, which is quite a sizeable number of pensioners - are not well-off enough to be able to absorb that allowance, particularly as they've been given no advance notice, no time to budget. This move is immoral, the bar too narrow. The cut-off should have been higher, and the withdrawal shelved until next year.

Because

We are not all in it together. And those who created this debt, this so called 'black hole'... those who decided Brexit was going to give us £millions per week 'extra' to spend on... well, you know the story - have made us poorer as a nation. And all that wasted £9+ billion on useless PPE equipment (the DHSC's own estimate) - poof sucked out of the economy, gone, just like that.

So why aren't those who caused this 'economic crisis' paying the cost? Why are just-about-managing pensioners going to be wrapping themselves in duvets or going to bed early to stay warm? Why are they footing the 'bill'?

And I would ask the same question of a Tory government because, ultimately, they too would've considered this - did in fact consider it, because they commissioned a consultation paper and the removal of WFA was on it.

The reason is because Starmer's Labour Party - and I voted for it purely on the basis that its members (fingers crossed) were going to be less-corrupt, less incompetent, and less self-seeking, is running the country under the exact-same status quo as the Tories, he and the party have no other choice, otherwise they'd be into Corbyn-territory and would never have won the election. He, and they, have to run with both the hare and the hounds.

So expect more efficiency, less corruption, a more 'orderly' government but don't expect the impoverished working-class and pensioners to suddenly be less impoverished... I just really wish they'd had the decency to recognise that those just above the PC cut-off point will suffer as much - in some cases possibly more - than those who are below it.

Bad (and immoral) move.

Just to be clear, I am not signing anything that endeavours to restore the WFA wholesale, only petitions that will raise the cut-off bar - delayed until next year. Because they can do that if they want to.

This was never envisaged in 1947 when lifespan for men was only 65 and women 70. The NHS payments we make are totally inadequate to pay for our continuing care, even contributions by the current working generations cannot make up the shortfall.

All true - but successive governments have had plenty of time to actually deal with this. They had and have the data, the stats - they know people are living longer and have been doing so for some time, it's not a sudden, surprise finding. Each government has shelved the issue - as they have with social care. Kicked it into the long grass, they all have done that, kicked the can further down the road, for short-term political gain.

Little rant over and out!

We are on the old state pension with a very small work pension We aren’t on any benefits and energy bills and council tax eat the majority of our income.
Luckily living frugally is a habit now, so we have some savings.

“Life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2020 to 2022 was 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females; compared with 2017 to 2019, life expectancy has fallen by 38 weeks from 79.3 years for males and by 23 weeks from 83.0 years for females.”

I’m sure Covid did lower the average somewhat, but the trend is ever upwards, moreover we are healthier for longer because of ever more expensive treatments to keep us healthy

This was never envisaged in 1947 when lifespan for men was only 65 and women 70. The NHS payments we make are totally inadequate to pay for our continuing care, even contributions by the current working generations cannot make up the shortfall.

25% of pensioners “needing” WFA is entirely my guess, but I guess 90% want it.

Most of us are concerned about those who are not eligible for pension credit but will still struggle to pay their heating bills.

I think you are right Callistemon213 - that is my concern too.

I think it is quite obvious - and must be to Reeves also - that such pensioners have (a) probably budgeted this year with that sum in mind, (b) will be hit hard by the 10% energy price-cap increase in October, and (c) have been given no time to even attempt to save any money to cover the shortfall.

Unfortunately, such pensioners have no clout, they can't show their anger in any way that will embarrass the government so, as others have said - they are an easy target.

I'm not, in principle, against the removal of the WFA from those who are wealthy enough to absorb it without any problem - does Alan Sugar need the WFA? But this is targeting those who are going to feel it keenly, and that is just not acceptable

I was fortunate enough to be able to stay at school to do A levels . I think only one of our sixth form went to University and one to Art school. The majority went onto Teacher training, secretarial training and civil service. I went off to train as a nurse which I have never regretted. In my 40’s I completed a degree in nursing “ on the job”.
DH and I got our first mortgage at 15% interest and climbing, a year before I became pregnant. I had to leave my job (no choice) and then did evening and weekend locum or agency work until the children were about 11 I think. So lost Pension years and chances of any career development. Every generation has struggles . I really hope that more pensioners will claim pension credit now ,it has the least uptake of all and opens so many opportunities for other benefits for pensioners who only have the state pension .There are rich pensioners and they shouldn’t be receiving the WFA it should be means tested .

silverlining your post resonates with me. You describe our situation so well. I was lucky enough to go to Teacher Training College, and enjoyed my teaching in the early years of my marriage, but as someone else said, there was no maternity leave and no maternity pay.

could take it up for family reasons.
Could not take it up.

My spelling and grammar was better then 😁

westendgirl

I did get a scholarship for Uni, but my parents had to help me out as the grant was means tested .In 1961 a new teacher could expect to earn £570 per year . I think my first pay check was about £48. My husband was a teacher and it took us ages to save enough to by a house. It was hard to get a mortgage . It wasn't always better then . Perhaps Mumsnet needs to do some research.

Yes, I got a State Scholarship but even so, could take it up for family reasons.
Technical College, day release from work and night school was readily available then.

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

Well you might have been, but I certainly wasn’t.
It wasn’t at all easy to buy a house for us, and we couldn’t afford any flights until we were in our forties. Money was extremely tight whilst we raised our family.

David49

Not all pensioners are rich boomers but I would guess 75%+ could manage perfectly well without the age related benefits.
It saves £billions which can be spent where it really matters, changes are long overdue and the have to be made fairly.

80 is the new 60 the benefit system has to reflect the lifespan we live today.

80 is the new 60 Speak for yourself.

Life expectancy improvements have been slow for the last decade, and the latest estimates of life expectancy at birth are back to the same level as 2010 to 2012 for females and slightly below the 2010 to 2012 level for males.

Life expectancy at birth in the UK in 2020 to 2022 was 78.6 years for males and 82.6 years for females; compared with 2017 to 2019, life expectancy has fallen by 38 weeks from 79.3 years for males and by 23 weeks from 83.0 years for females.

So life expectancy is going down and may well go down further if we have a hard winter.

Most of us are concerned about those who are not eligible for pension credit but will still struggle to pay their heating bills.

but I would guess 75%+ could manage perfectly well without the age related benefits.
I'm not sure where you got that percentage from.
Is that from the ONS or a Government website?

Pascal. That’s not my take on it. As far as I am concerned life for many of us was hard, most leaving school to go to work at 15, or 16 if they ‘ stayed on’ to do a couple of gce’s.

No one I knew went to university and when I eventually studied for my degree as a 30 something mature student in the 80 s I was in a tiny cohort of about 6% of the population. Anyone going to a university before then were truly privileged and in an even smaller cohort.

Dont know about not having to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, buying a house wasn’t easy, a 5% or 10% deposit was always required and it took two of us to work and save fir that deposit while renting a damp dismal flat. No bank of mum and dad in those days. Mortgage rates were as high as 17% never under 10% so forgive me if I can’t get too exercised about mortgage interest going up to 4 or 5%… from a low of 2%. From our point of view it would have been a dream.

All our furniture was second hand from friends and family, nothing new, which we painted bright colours and were grateful. We never went out, lived on the cheapest sausages and mince meat and had to watch every penny in our first decade of marriage. After that it was every other penny. %

As for travel our children ( not just mine but many) have travelled the world, places I can only dream of and now probably too old to cope with. Their working lives don’t begin until their mid 20 s a full 10 years after mine did.

I am happy about the opportunities our children have, they are lucky having more access to higher education, travel and living in far flung places, what wonderful experiences, everything that we never had, but am cross about this ridiculous resentment coming from youngsters and others, who should know better, about us supposedly having had it easier than our children.

Speaking for myself and many others too, who started work young our lives have not been easy. We went without a lot to save a deposit and pay the extortionate mortgage. Our houses were not always worth a fortune z( still aren’t) and have obviously increased in value over the last 50 years just as those our children buy now will increase. It doesn’t make us any richer though because we have to live somewhere.

I did get a scholarship for Uni, but my parents had to help me out as the grant was means tested .In 1961 a new teacher could expect to earn £570 per year . I think my first pay check was about £48. My husband was a teacher and it took us ages to save enough to by a house. It was hard to get a mortgage . It wasn't always better then . Perhaps Mumsnet needs to do some research.

Not all pensioners are rich boomers but I would guess 75%+ could manage perfectly well without the age related benefits.
It saves £billions which can be spent where it really matters, changes are long overdue and the have to be made fairly.

80 is the new 60 the benefit system has to reflect the lifespan we live today.

I think people are looking back with rose-tinted spectacles and green eyes.

It really wasn't a case of "You've never had it so good".

Some people are struggling today but I don't remember very many single people who took out a mortgage, it took two salaries to be able to save up for years and there are far more single parent families now than back then who may be struggling. Why?

Even with a grant, university was for the children of more affluent parents. Most had to leave school, get a job and make their contribution to the family budget.
Cars? Few had cars. Phones? Run to the phone box in the pouring rain.
Holidays abroad? A trip to France if you were lucky or went to work as an au pair.

westendgirl

Yes and we had huge interest rates,no maternity leave. (I had to resign from my teaching post), no child allowance for the first child, heavy pushchairs which had to be collapsed when getting on buses,the cheap flights and holidays were difficult to get if you were a single mum with one child.Mortgages were 2 1/2 times salary with no exceptions.Power cuts, towelling nappies to boil, and so it goes on . I think most generations have their difficulties.

Hear, hear

Callistemon213

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

But only a very small percentage went to University, probably less than 5% of my age group of girls, possibly more of the boys.

Girls at my Grammar school, even those in the 'A' stream, went to Teacher Training College, Technical College or into the Civil Service and took the Civil Service exams.

because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage
Mortgage rates were 15% at one point.
But we're not allowed to mention that.

Yes Callistemon I appreciate that everyone will have a different experience but I didn't have much money as a widowed single parent but even at 15% it was still easier to get a mortgage.. and when I trained as a nurse I got my fees paid and an allowance for my child.. and mortgage interest paid for a while by the State... none of this is possible now..

Psi didn't mean you, westendgirl, I mean younger generations being resentful of older people.

I think most generations have their difficulties

Yes, they do and feeling resentful is such a negative emotion.

Yes and we had huge interest rates,no maternity leave. (I had to resign from my teaching post), no child allowance for the first child, heavy pushchairs which had to be collapsed when getting on buses,the cheap flights and holidays were difficult to get if you were a single mum with one child.Mortgages were 2 1/2 times salary with no exceptions.Power cuts, towelling nappies to boil, and so it goes on . I think most generations have their difficulties.

pascal30

I can certainly understand young people's grievances about the older generation.. We had so many more advantages... not only free University and a grant, it was much easier to buy a house because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage, the start of cheap flights and holidays, a really good dental system, easily accessible NHS, proper contracts for employment, better social care, no worry yet about climate change, really the list goes on.. we were a blessed generation really

But only a very small percentage went to University, probably less than 5% of my age group of girls, possibly more of the boys.

Girls at my Grammar school, even those in the 'A' stream, went to Teacher Training College, Technical College or into the Civil Service and took the Civil Service exams.

because we didn't have to jump through hoops to get a mortgage
Mortgage rates were 15% at one point.
But we're not allowed to mention that.