Where does being a good neighbour start or stop?

Oreo&Petra- like i said,different people have different ideas on 'being neighbourly' - but that degree of help is what carers are for.And that might be preventing a carer from taking up a job that earns them a wage/salary.

A lot of things these days can be delivered for them-prescriptions, food- shops,etc.And the bins collected and lifts to get to hospital visits etc can all be arranged, or cleaners or help via age concern, even by phone.But they either need to do it if they can themselves, or their daughter must for them.

petra

If the daughter has a demanding job that would go with a good wage, ie being able to pay for help.
But that is by the bye, the elderly couple aren’t getting the help they need.
It is understandable if people don’t enjoy good health not being able to chip in but if your of sound mind and body, why wouldn’t you 🤷‍♀️
I’d chip in with the housework and gardening because I’m very good at that.
We live in a close with 18 bungalows. Only 6 of those bungalows have working households.
We all chip in to help when someone needs help.

I agree.We help out several very elderly neighbours, shopping now and then, putting their bins out, that sort of thing.

*as well

You can organise for bins to be on assisted collection aszwell, with the council,their daughter needs to do that if they cant, but she would need to say why she cannot go help them put them out- maybe if she lives too far away or sonething to pop over every bin day?

No,definitly Dont start 'popping in for chats', or 'asking if they need anything' when you go shop either- Not trying to be mean- but thats how you get roped in to the helping on a regular basis! And as different people have differing views on whats just being neighbourly and what is too much, then its hard, but if you start any of that then you are doing exactly what the bossy neighbour wanted in first place!- A chat would be ok say if you were both out in respective gardens, or in the street but i would not go 'pop in' to their home on a regular basis- or it will probably snowball from there.And you're not up to that,so if bossy neighbour mentions it again, say (again) that you arent in a position to do so,but ask again about their daughter- ask if she actually knows the others are all doing this? She needs telling,because if the couple need so much help,then maybe either the daughter needs to organise proper care, with social services if they qualify,or paid help/care if she can pay for it- or wether she needs to start considering if they need to be living in a sheltered housing accomodation of some sort if they're so frail etc.? Its sad, but if all the other neighbours are elderly too then its safer all round if the daughter knows and fully understands how they are managing,or what help/care they do really need.It could be that she knows nothing of all this extra care they are getting from all their neighbours, and she is asking her parents when she visits "are you ok? & for pills,shopping,appts etc?" And they are just replying,"yes we're ok"- and she then thinks they are still managing by themselves under their own steam. She needs to know, to organise carers,nurses,hospital transport too for appointments.etc.(could you intercept her one day when she visits,and explain how yourselves arent in a position to help like the others do, due to health issues,but that youre concerned that they might need proffesional care instead?) Its her duty, not their neighbours.Like someone else said,they are stopping them getting the proper help & care that they need & are entitled to.Listen out for if they're banging on the wall for Help if they've had a fall or something,in a real emergency,or if they knock on your door asking if one has collapsed or something,but apart from that, you really need to take care of yourselves.

Try to be kind, help when you can manage it. Yes in an emergency of course. Perhaps with putting the bins out, things like that. Dont be bullied by the organising person.
x

They don't want to look after her or get people to do it for nothing or on the cheap.

A bunch of cheap skates by the sound of it.That is how people like that get their money.
Sounds as though the lady should be in a nursing home.

Feel very sorry for the elderly lady but you have to look after yourself first.

Don't let them try and make you feel guilty.

It's really none of the bossy neighbours business. Is she watching to see when you are helping your neighbour?
It is up to the neighbours themselves and the family.
Sometimes "help" is just interference.

If you to land up needing a bit if help is bossy neighbour going to tend to you too. YANBU. The couple just do not want anyone interfering or do no recognise that they need help. Leave it to them and the daughter to sort out their lives. If all becomes serious daughter should be involving social services.

Kindness can go to far, and the minute you say sorry I can't do it, you'll be the bad guy, I dont mind looking out for my elderly neighbours in a emergency, but her family should be more involved, if they can't help, then pay someone or get social services involved,..its just another way of taking pressure from family and putting it on neighbours...its not fair..

Another way to look at it is; don’t say yes then someone who can help will have to be approached.

Being involved in the past with older distant relatives, have had what I call ‘voyeurs’ SAY they are helping but they are not.

Better then to approach another neighbour or neighbours.

Best wishes OP.

Don't allow bossy neighbour to guilt- trip you into feeling you should do more to help. It's been my experience that families are quite happy to let someone else look after their parents and the more you do, the more they'll let you

M0nica

Doodledog Your childhood experience is one way that families worked in your childhood, but I think you are generalising from a sample of one.

I am a war baby, My grandmother lived with us for 5 years because her house was destroyed in the bombing, my other hrand parents lived a couple of hundred yards away. i saw them on Sunday at church and we woud walk part of he way home together, but only went to their house for family events

Then my father's job took us to another part of the country, so trips to grandparents were a big event that happened in school holidays. I knew very few people who had grandparents living locally. One of the links my best friend and I had at school were that we both had grandparents who lived in south London. As a child as a parent and as a grandparents, spontaneous visits to grandparents were not even thought of, for me, my children and now my grandchildren, visiting grandparents has meant a journey, by bus, by train, by car, and a stay over of several days to make it worthwhile

I am not suggesting that my experience was the norm either. I think there were/are many ways the relationship between genrations was /is worked out in the past as in the present.

Oh definitely. It was just an example, although I may have worded it in a way that suggested otherwise.

The point remains, though, that lifestyles evolve, and what is usual in one generation is not always the same in the next, which is the relevance to the OP, who is being expected to fit with the older neighbour's way of looking at the world.

All sorts of behaviours change, as a result of little things such as getting telephones installed and then change again as landlines become rarer, as well as big things such as it being the norm for women to work, and huge things such as wars.

There are some (not all) older people who cling to the idea that the way their generation did things was 'right', and judge younger generations in that light. Sending or not sending cards, children being grateful for presents and so on are small things that cause a lot of real hurt, but are not intended to do so.

An example (yes, a sample of one, but for illustration) is my mum hates getting Moonpig cards because she sees them as not having 'bothered to go to the shop'. My daughter sends them, and they are really thoughtful. She chooses photos and writes her own slogans to make the cards personal - to me that is far more about 'being bothered' than buying a mass-produced card in which someone else has written the verse. It's all about perception, isn't it?

I don't think you are being unreasonable, especially as the man has money but will not spend it on himself.

I am in my early 80s with no living relatives, but I try to ask little of the neighbours 2 doors away. I have a cleaner, pay for grass cutting as and had my small back garden paved to cut out gardening, had 10 year light bulbs fitted, do online shopping, you get the drift. I would never ask for a lift now that I have stopped driving. If I am offered a lift, fine.

I am partially sighted with mobility problems but if I have the money, I will spend it. You probably gather I am independent.

At our age you have to look after ourselves. You have done more than your share in the past, enjoy your own life and keep an eye out, but please, no more.

When my neighbour was diagnosed with cancer and had chem and two major operations I helped by caring for her cat, watering her houseplants, getting her shopping, etc. That quickly escalated into doing her housework, her washing and ironing, changing the bed, cooking, etc. She was grateful to start with but became demanding and critical. To be fair her health is poor and chemo has left her with many problems. We are both in our mid seventies. I should add that she has a daughter who has done very little to help.
She has a lovely garden with lots of pots and shrubs. I am no gardener so I did nothing in her garden which started to look neglected and I admit I knew it needed attention but chose to do nothing. The crunch came when she criticised me for not looking after it and demanded that I sort it out. It would have taken hours. For the first time I found the courage to stand up to her and said no.
I pointed out that she was now able to do more and that her Attendance Allowance should be used to help. She now has a cleaner for a couple of hours each week and has persuaded another neighbour to tidy her garden, though she complains that he doesn’t do a ‘proper’ job.
The worst thing though is the way she comes to my house and then offloads on me. There is never anything positive and she never asks about me or my family. I understand she has had a very rough time so I try to be patient and kind but it is so draining and leaves me feeling thoroughly depressed and, shamefully, resentful.
So, my message is don’t let yourself be used. It’s so easy to be pulled in but very difficult to extract yourself. Set firm boundaries and stick to them.

Your response was perfectly reasonable. Not your situation to deal with.

No. You're honest not unreasonable.

Bossy(s) may do as they wish, you do what you wish.

SDC you need to put yourself and husband first. Neighbours aren't your responsibility.

I looked after my husband,parents and mother in law until their deaths. My husband died in 2004 aged 47 and mom last to die aged 90 in 2017.

I was born disabled and have visible and invisible disabilities plus heart condition. After mom's funeral I felt worse just thought it was my body telling me to rest . Turned out I had jaundice but I couldn't see I was yellow ..It was caused be long term use of 2 tablets . Took me a week before I had to call the GP and was admitted straight onto the acute ward.

I didn't realise how much looking after others cost me in physical and mental health. You can understand that as you say you have looked after relatives.

Neighbours are their families responsibly and social services. Not yours .

Look after yourself and husband you both come first. 🌹

Doodledog Your childhood experience is one way that families worked in your childhood, but I think you are generalising from a sample of one.

I am a war baby, My grandmother lived with us for 5 years because her house was destroyed in the bombing, my other hrand parents lived a couple of hundred yards away. i saw them on Sunday at church and we woud walk part of he way home together, but only went to their house for family events

Then my father's job took us to another part of the country, so trips to grandparents were a big event that happened in school holidays. I knew very few people who had grandparents living locally. One of the links my best friend and I had at school were that we both had grandparents who lived in south London. As a child as a parent and as a grandparents, spontaneous visits to grandparents were not even thought of, for me, my children and now my grandchildren, visiting grandparents has meant a journey, by bus, by train, by car, and a stay over of several days to make it worthwhile

I am not suggesting that my experience was the norm either. I think there were/are many ways the relationship between genrations was /is worked out in the past as in the present.

David49

Nobody minds helping out in an emergency, taking on long term commitments is a different thing, I certainly would not want to take on long term care or transport for non relatives, thats what social services are for.

I agree with this.

It is a shame that as society shifts (as it always has) there are people who did all the things expected of the younger generation when they were young themselves, but who then find that there is no payback when they get older. It's not that people care less now, but that lifestyles have changed. It's also a shame that social services are not really stepping into the breach.

When my mother was young, many women didn't work, so had time when their children were at school to visit the sick, or run errands for their older relatives and so on. Also children played outside for hours, and didn't have numerous clubs and playdates that require lifts to and fro in the evenings as they do now, so their lives were very different from modern women.

My mum was expected to visit her own mother most days, and to call on her way to the shops to see what my grandmother wanted her to get for her. Looking back, my granny would have been in her 50s, and far from incapable, but that was what was expected. When my mum got older we didn't live nearby, and we all worked, so couldn't do the same for her. At weekends we were doing the things we couldn't do in the week because we were at work. My own children live even further away, so we see them almost by appointment - it's too far to make spontaneous visits, and involves sleepovers when we do see them. Each generation has more freedom but less 'connection' than the preceding one, I think, and each way of life has its own pros and cons, but it is tempting to see one's own 'way' as being better than others. I wouldn't have wanted my mother's lifestyle, but I would prefer to see more of my children than I do.

It's not reasonable of the older couple in the OP to expect people (particularly newcomers to the village) to conform to the norms of years ago.

Experience of years of seeing bossy women....they often boss everyone, but actually do very little hands on help themselves. All talk and no action.

To the bossy neighbour, I just say "I think you can keep all the main bases covered and given it's your suggestion by all means take that on. Due to our own health issues we cannot give any more support other than keeping a watchful eye out and maybe alerting you to any jobs or issues you feel able to sort out on their behalf, bearing in mind they have a daughter who should be consulted and also they may deem any input by neighbours as interference"

I agree. Keeping an eye open for possible problems and making sure you have the daughter's phone number so that you can alert her in an emergency is sufficiently helpful.
Or the bossy neighbour who, I am sure, will be happy to rush round to help.

I sympathise with the daughter. I spent a lot of time and effort to arrange care for an elderly relative after he was discharged from hospital as his wife said she couldn’t cope. When care was put in place the carers lasted a very short time as they were sent away. His wife then said it was OK she was coping. I shan’t bother next time.