Is it allowed?

I think simply put, David Haye was talking off the cuff when he was trying to put across that his ex was beautiful to look at, but inside she is ugly. We can all think of something we wish we’d said better—with hindsight.

One of the problems is that 'celebrities' spouting sexist (or racist or homophobic) speech on TV programmes will be seen by many impressionable young people. We have a growing issue with teenage boys developing anti women thoughts due to their hero worship of the Andrew Tate type misogynists. Women teachers are finding increasing issues with these boys, and obviously their fellow female schoolmates are suffering from verbal onslaughts too. Say what you want in private but on television hate speech must be carefully monitored as it is feeding hatred that can turn to abuse & murder.

Cossy

It depends I guess whether you think sexist remarks are ok? I don’t!

I guess it comes down to wether you believe in freedom of speech and letting people out themselves, or keep it hidden and never really knowing who a person truly is.

OP, you say «unintentionally sexist remark» and ask Is it allowed?
I think nowadays people get too hung up on what is allowed instead of thinking «is this right, fair, appropriate?»

Too much IMO seems not to be “allowed” with the implication that if it is allowed, it must be OK.
Well I can think of many instances where a comment may not infringe the PC/inappropriate/ boundaries, but are downright rude and best left unsaid.
But let’s no go down the road of official complaints or censorship, instead of just dealing with it oneself.
If someone takes offence that might be because they are easily offended or it might be because a remark was deliberately offensive. Let’s not lose sight of considering what we as ourselves.
PS if the comment was the one about “ugly birds”, yes, it was crass but hardly n worth clutching my pearls at.

Didn’t see it. What was the comment?

Watching the clip is rather grim actually. Haye really fancies himself as a top dog "Attractive sexy male" and his whole premises in assessing women were their looks - Ugly or not.

As TheSunRisesInTheEast says, attractiveness actually comes from a whole number of attributes, and

Haye is taking us back to a time when physical appearance as in women as objects to be looked at and judged thus

What he said was a mixture of pathetic, vain, and inadequate, and turning the clock back on men and women seeing each other as whole people and getting on as such. And that includes sexual attractiveness - a personality shines through, whatever you "look" like.

I think you could be right, Whiff, unless it is just that we older people have more experience of dealing with this kind of low-level bullying.

It was a generalisation anyway, wasn't it, not aimed at anyone in particular.

I am sure there are many women who could set him back on the right path pdq.

Do think us older people are more thick skinned. I do preview it but still get the words wrong so they don't mean what I want to say 🤦🤦🤦

I don't watch reality TV. The clips I have seen to me they don't represent real people and the ones with so called celebs I have no idea who most of the people are .

I think it depends on your age what offends you . Especially nowadays as I have no idea what half the terms people use means. My daughter was called a Snow flake by a post office male worker. She had to explain what it meant and she reported him to the post office .Me I would have dealt with it myself in a loud voice so the whole place would have heard and made him apologise.

I know this isn't what the OP started talking about . I had an email and the woman put she / her after her name . I had to reply to the email so after my name I put woman . The reply came back and she signed it with just her name this time .

I wasn't offended just thought it was silly to put she /her. I don't take offence at things but I do fight back if people over step the mark. I have no tolerance for bad behaviour and the older I get the less tolerance I have .
But I am able to call people out on it some people can't . But I don't think use older ones are more thick skinned than the youngsters of today . Being a teenager in the 70's and being bullied everyday for 5 years for being disabled you have 2 choices fold or fight back . I didn't fight back but I decided no one would ever bully or call me names ever again. The worst thing my parents ever said was sticks and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt me . Words hurt more.

When my children started school told them if anyone hit or kicked them then they do the same back and if they called them names they called them names back . I told the school that's what I told my children to do . They said didn't like it. But my daughter got bullied once and she fought back and wasn't bullied again. My son never was bullied .

Getting back to reality TV why do people go on it and clips I have seen they don't seem to talk like real people. I wonder how much is scripted ? Plus why do people watch it ?

I think he was describing his partner - I think it was just a joke - wait till he gets hom

David Haye has probably had too many blows to his head 😵‍💫.

In his defence, there is a general feeling that beauty and brains don't go together. The archetypal brainy person is plain, dowdy and wears glasses. This may not sit well with lots of women, but it doesn't bother me.

Exceptions to this thinking, in the media, are Rachel Riley, Carol Vorderman and Vanessa Feltz (I can't think of anyone else, it's very late.)

If you watch University Challenge, it's rare to see a beautiful woman, but they are very clever, that may just mean that the beautiful, clever ones don't want to take part.

With this in mind, I would take Haye's comment to mean his girlfriend isn't only beautiful, but clever too.

Ugly bird isn't a term I would ever use, but neither would I call a man a minger, pug ugly or any other derogatory term relating to looks. Beauty and attractiveness to me come from a happy, smiley, kind person. A pretty woman or handsome man can come across as very unattractive if they are nasty, cruel, or rude in their manner. Likewise, a plain looking person, male or female, can be very attractive if they have a happy, cheerful, friendly and kind personality.

I haven't watched the programme in question, but Haye probably thought his comment would raise a laugh with his camp mates, he didn't know that he would be scrutinised by Gransnetters, a force to be reckoned with 😆.

Oh, he can say it.

But we know where he's coming from.

And I'm glad he was called out.

Cardamom

Yes, I think I remember seeing your thread about it on Mumsnet Wyllow3; very complicated I recall.

Never posted on mumsnet. But quite likely a similar experience. But me sharing parts of it online in another place altogether meant a woman PM'd me about a horrific attack when she was young by a male family member.

And she said nothing.

Pearl clutching?

It's life Graphite whether you agree with it or not unfortunately. More doors and opportunities are open for attractive people than for less attractive people; it's human nature. That's why people wear makeup, style their hair, wear certain clothes: to make themselves feel more attractive. But, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder; most of us will be attractive to someone at sometime. And some of us not attractive to anyone, ever. Haye was just giving his opinion, as he's allowed to do. You don't have to agree with him, nor do you have to listen to him. But he has that right. For now.

Haye should keep his fat mouth shut.

Let's hope his partner will set him on the right path.
Firmly.

Pearl clutching? We don’t need men to put us down, do we when we have women who enjoy putting other women down with derogatory remarks.

If one teenage boy picks up on what Haye said, gathers with his mates in the playground, says it to a girl who goes home and sits crying in her bedroom because she isn’t pretty enough, that’s enough reason for me to think that Haye should keep his fat mouth shut.

I’ve only watched one episode of the Other Bennet Girl but it’s that same thing, isn’t it? The one considered plain. The one who won’t get a husband. The one who has to make way for her pretty sisters. The one who has to think of other ways to be accomplished.

Haye is just a version Mrs Bennet.

Yes, I think I remember seeing your thread about it on Mumsnet Wyllow3; very complicated I recall.

Well yes, it has happened to most of us women all of our lives in one way or another and I've dealt with it too in the past, like being a team leader of men and being taunted and bullied back in the 80's or more recently the usual stuff, as well as meeting lovely men and my family being full of them

but sometimes life - or lies - or falling in love with the wrong person - or in the case of the Sexual Assault completely left field and could have happened to any women whom a man takes a fancy to and "loses it" -

well I have a stiff view of men who continue to talk and act in this way.

Wait until you actually fall foul of misogyny.
😀
Goodness, at my great age I've encountered it more than once and learnt to deal with it over the years!

Carefully masked it at first not "makes".

BTW, am fortunate enough to have had a long relationship with a first husband who was the very opposite for 28 years before all this! Loved and respected women for themselves as people not "birds" - "ugly" or otherwise.

Hmmm. Wait until you actually fall foul of misogyny. I had to get the police in twice - I failed to recognise this in a husband, who carefully makes it at first, and had to get the police in on coercive abuse in the end:

and out of the blue, in a religious setting of all places, out of the blue, completey uninvited, last October I was sexually assaulted by a man who then claimed it was "just a hug" until, again, I involved the police and then had to work with our inadequate Safeguarding system to actually to convince others around, some who believed him at first and accused me of invention.

Pearl clutching?

Unbelievable talk to women who have fallen foul of sexism before you rabbit on about pearl clutching

And no-one would have heard of him if he wasn't behaving like a misogynistic plonker.

Agree with you 100% Galaxy. The amount of pearl clutching is hilarious!

Just ignore him.
He's a mysognistic plonker.

I'm not "offended". Thats lukewarm.

I'm ^ very angry angry^ - we are still, as said above, apparently still back in the 70's when us women named it as inappropriate for very good reasons indeed - stupid, put downs by men who fancy themselves with "the ladies" to pontificate like that and just encourage it to still be OK when we have so much abuse of women still and this is all part of the mind set.

Men feeling it's fine to comment on womens looks/bodies and in this case basically boast "I've got a good looker" duh ugly birds blah blah.

Like it makes them look good. Yuk.