Use of words and younger generation

These people you talk about have been brainwashed!

Since this thread is supposed to be about words, can I introduce the word used to describe children who misbehave in Ireland - "bold". It has a different meaning from the usual English and not as strong as "naughty".

A child might be told- "don't be bold" or "if you're bold you won't get to watch TV later.

I'm not sure if younger generations of parents in Ireland approve of the use of "bold" - must ask my daughters!

MawsRosie

Oh for goodness sake! How pompous! (The young woman, not OP🤣)
That said, I got pulled up for using the phrase «good babies» when I accompanied DD3 to an NCT picnic in the park. It was a lovely sunny day, happy young mums, some babies sleeping, some being nursed- a general air of contentment.
When I commented on the «good babies» I was told there was no such thing as a bad baby so I shouldn’t say that.
Hands up anybody else who, like me and I expect most of my generation, who think that to describe a baby as good means contented, possibly placid but generally happy and healthy!
I’ll keep my opinions to myself in future!

Sounds to me as if those young mothers have not yet had the truly delightful task of walking the floor all night with their dear, good child squalling her head off, nto be 'cause she is teething or ill, but simply because she sees notreason to comply with the silly adult idea of dividing 24 hours into roughly 12 hours awake and 12 hours asleep.

Most children after the first two months of life are alternately little monkeys (devils) or little dears (angels) but presumably we are not allowed to say that either.

When a word or a term offends someone they want to change it. I sort of understand that, however whatever new word they pick someone one day will use a version of it that offends and someone will have to find yet another word to use. ie. Neurodiverse someone will call someone a Neuri or a Versey or some other derogative version and it will be changed again.

Doodledog

Children have always pushed boundaries for a reaction. People who hit their children rarely did it once, and teachers caned the same children regularly.

Small children don't necessarily understand why they are behaving as they do - they are tired, or scared, or jealous, or overwhelmed, so they lash out, or cry or whatever. Teaching them to deal with the emotions, rather than blocking the reactions to them is more likely to result in well-balanced teenagers and adults.

Gentle parenting is harder work than threatening or violent parenting. It needs patience and persistence from the parents, who may be tired, stressed and sick of others looking askance at them and their children. Parents who manage to stick to it are likely to be invested in their children, so I don't think we need to worry about their futures.

I am married to an only child. Throughout his adult life he has had difficulty dealing with negative or aggressive (not violent) behaviour from other people. I have always put that down to his being an only child in a very peaceable family. Until he left home, he never really faced aggression or dislike or hate from people, except in situations where he could retreat home.

This inability to cope with anger, dislike and all negativity in other people has caused him real problems in adult life.

welbeck

You are being totally unreasonable to refer to a fellow human being as
it

? Nobody did.

There’s a sensible third way between gentle parenting and parents being violent.
Probably the way we all brought up our own children in fact.
Gentle parenting seems in practice to consist of no rules or telling offs at all.
The parents will regret this daftness by the time their kids are aged 10/11.
We will get yet another, but worse, adult as a result of this.
All bad and anti social behaviour we see whether it’s in cinemas or theatres, in bars and restaurants or on the street comes down to one thing…no consideration for others.

It's awkward, i suppose, if parents and grandparents aren't on the same wavelength.

MissAdventure

I would have removed the child.

I quite agree.
However dad would have had to be the one to do that, and he wasn't going to.

I would have removed the child.

A parents responsibility is to bring their children up so that they can face up to the challenges of adult life and however nice it is to respond by telling them their action/behaviour is unacceptable and we don't do that here do we, then help them apologise to whoever they may have hurt or upset, then find them something constructive to do. Once they get out in the big wide world, they won't be treated like that, they will have to get used to all sorts of negative behaviours from other people that they will be completely unable to deal with or challenge.

M0nica my post which you quote was referring to how I would talk to early years children, ie under 5.
I genuinely found it helped them look at whatever they'd done and see why it was wrong. It also helped build a team spirit in the small groups I was looking after.

The child of 5 bashing his grandma's knees is definitely old enough to have learnt this is not the way to behave, and as his parent I would have removed the toy if he hadn't stopped when told.
Given his dad's comment when she justifiably rebuked him, I think as grandma I would have left the room and let them get on with it!

What a pleasant change to read about a parent engaging with their child on the bus. I see far too many strapped into buggies (when they’re old enough to walk) facing the wall with mum or dad on the phone.
I tend to agree that young children aren’t “naughty”, they need to learn how to conform.

Consistemcy is key, I think
Say what you mean, and always follow through on what you've said.

Grammaretto

How rude and ridiculous that young woman was! Spindrift
Sounds like she is the one with the confused attitude, not you.

What I hate is the use of the F word by all and sundry. I still cringe when I hear it not only on buses and the street but by young parents and on the radio.

It's the 'C' word that sets me off, Grammaretto. Why is the female anatomy used as the ultimate insult by so many....?

Children have always pushed boundaries for a reaction. People who hit their children rarely did it once, and teachers caned the same children regularly.

Small children don't necessarily understand why they are behaving as they do - they are tired, or scared, or jealous, or overwhelmed, so they lash out, or cry or whatever. Teaching them to deal with the emotions, rather than blocking the reactions to them is more likely to result in well-balanced teenagers and adults.

Gentle parenting is harder work than threatening or violent parenting. It needs patience and persistence from the parents, who may be tired, stressed and sick of others looking askance at them and their children. Parents who manage to stick to it are likely to be invested in their children, so I don't think we need to worry about their futures.

Children are being killed by kindness. There are more and more children suffering from anxiety related mental problems. mainly, I think because parents are removing all obstacles from their course.

A parents responsibility is to bring their children up so that they can face up to the challenges of adult life and however nice it is to respond by telling them their action/behaviour is unacceptable and we don't do that here do we, then help them apologise to whoever they may have hurt or upset, then find them something constructive to do. Once they get out in the big wide world, they won't be treated like that, they will have to get used to all sorts of negative behaviours from other people that they will be completely unable to deal with or challenge.

As a child I always knew what I was being punished for, even if I often thought it unfair and unjust, - that of course was my opinion. The parent or teacher doing the punishing obviously had a different opinion.

For most of my childhood I had an embarrassing bowel problem that led to a lot of bullying in school. Not nice at the time, but, as an adult, I almost see the experience, unpleasant though it was as an advantage in dealing with adult life. I learned to stand up for myself, I never whimpered or acted scared, I could see that was counterproductive and I went into adult life able to deal with the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.'

Now I am not suggesting children should have to face problems as serious as mine, but most parents want their children to grow into resilient adults and that starts at home with mild conflict with their parents where they can learn in a supportive atmosphere how to deal with it.

My children and grandchildren have been brought up to be resilient. Our 18year old DGD has just returned from her first solo trip abroad. She is a Francophile and has recently returned from a long weekend in Paris - on her own. She did all the bookings, flight and hotel, and spent three days walking round the city sightseeing, shopping and negotiating taxis and restaurants and returned safe and well. She has sorted out all her university accommodation herself and will go up to Uni in the Autumn confident she has all the practical and other skills necessary for life away from home.

It has been very interesting to read everyone's post and I am glad that it has raised a discussion and thank those who have commented. My next question would be what do we do about the children who do not take lightly to gentle parenting and who keep pushing the boundaries for a reaction? What about the children who unfortunately are unable to regulate themselves and reason out their unacceptable behaviour? What do teachers and parents do then? We do need to get on with everyday life and do not always have the bandwidth to deal with inappropriate behaviour? How is gentle parenting going to manifest when the children reach their teenage years? And beyond? In adult life, in relationships etc? This will all unfold in the fullness of time........

There are two separate issues here. One is children's behaviour, and the other is how it is described. Most of us probably prefer children who are well behaved and polite, but sometimes they all fall short of that.

Calling them 'naughty', which comes from 'naught' (as in having or being worthy of nothing) does not address the behaviour, but labels the child. Many modern parents prefer to explain why the behaviour is unacceptable, whilst recognising that the child is immature and still developing their understanding and emotions. I can see the value of that, although I think it's a bit of a tall order for a mother at the end of her tether .

I don't think that trying to be positive rather than negative will result in badly behaved children - it's more that when we see children playing up we expect to see reactions similar to how ours would have been, and when we see something very different it's easy to assume that the reaction has caused the behaviour.

There was a similar reaction when smacking children became unacceptable, with people saying 'spare the rod and spoil the child' etc, and assuming that badly behaved children would become angels if they got a good hiding. Now it's widely accepted that non-violent childrearing doesn't result in uncontrollable children we see those attitudes far less often.

Gracey, your friend’s son is more concerned about his son’s freedom to be creative than any potential injury he might cause to another person, especially to his own mother. I sympathise, and I would not let that one go without comment.

I wouldn’t comment to a stranger though.
At an antique / vintage fair recently two dads were there with their two young sons. They let them play around to the extent that they ignored what they were touching. When one started to push a wheelbarrow that belonged to a stall I told him not to move it, and he stopped. My comment was direct but not harsh. He could have caused damaged to people or goods on sale. I did not say anything to his Dad, though I thought he was not being watchful enough.
That is more about parenting than actual words though, so I have gone off thread, apologies.

welbeck

You are being totally unreasonable to refer to a fellow human being as
it

Really? I just took it to mean the OP wasn't referring to the child as a boy or a girl. I see nothing unreasonable in that whatsoever.

The younger generation always think they are absolutely right until they become the older generation and are told how wrong they were.

When I was a young mum older relatives and neighbours would sometimes say things that jarred about bringing up children or their behaviour but I was never rude enough to point this out to them.

My friend comments that she's always glad to come home after visiting her three young grandsons, 2,5 and 8. She says they seem wild, uncontrolled and are never reprimanded for their behaviour.

She said " Don't do that" to the 5 yr old as he was bashing a toy around her knees as she sat on the sofa and was told off by her son. Apparently her words were 'harsh' and she was restricting his play, his discovery.

She had three sons so knew little ones could be boisterous, but she's yet to see any sign of manners, gratitude or consideration for others in her grandchildren.

She calls it " free range parenting" which makes us laugh, but it saddens her that she feels she now really doesn't enjoy being in their company, and limits her visits as she finds them a strain.

dalrymple23

Recently, a call centre employee reported me for "abuse". I used the word "flipping". Apparently, in South Africa, this is considered to be a swear word. Well, how on earth am I supposed to know that?

I doubt it is. I think South Africans use "flip" and "flipping" in the same way British or Americans do.

My son has lived there since 2014, I'm going to ask him.

It might be a Corporate Call-Centre industry QA 'thing'... strict 'scripts' are enforced on employees where QA monitors are trained to flag any derivatives of a swear word, or minced-oaths as unprofessional or aggressive... according to AI.

- and the employee you spoke to reverse-targeted the customer!

And, if it is, how the flippin' heck are you supposed to know that!

LadyGaGa

While I respect those ladies’ personal views, it did come across as rude, and there’s no excuse for that.
Personally while I admit that I use it at times, I do find the word ‘naughty’ quite harsh. I seem to use ‘that’s not a nice thing to do’ more often. I think ‘good boy/girl’ is a really positive thing, and often you can see how proud the children are, and it encourages more of the same.
Times move on though, and I feel that parents’ wishes - if spoken politely- should be respected.
The lady with the take on ‘dark times’ just comes across as a bit daft!

I do find the word ‘naughty’ quite harsh.

Context is everything.

If you are standing over a child with an angry face, wagging a finger and shouting "you are NAUGHTY", well yes - that is harsh.

But quietly and gently telling Oscar that it's naughty to whack his sister Amy over the head because it could really hurt her, not so much. And you are explaining why it is 'naughty'.