Some years ago my seventy something aunt was having a little difficulty removing coins from her purse with her arthritic fingers to pay for her supermarket shopping. A young woman started making loud comments about the silly old trout who shouldn't be allowed out on her own. My aunt addressed her politely saying something along the lines of "I hope that you do not experience the painful misery of arthritis in forty or fifty years time, but if you do, I hope no one feels that is necessary to make rude comments about you in a loud voice". The rest of the supermarket queue broke into applause.

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Perhaps Boris is on the right track for once with his clapped-out old water canons. Looking at the pictures of muddied Glastonbury recently perhaps many of the participants there would have appreciated a good hoseing-down to cool their fevered brows!

Yes, you're right, Aka, but I think these days that bad behaviour has become the norm and as you say it is not just confined to lads. In the old days pubs were often rough, tough places, football terraces were not for the faint-hearted, but usually the yobs confronted each other not the general public. I used to enjoy the hurly-burly myself but I don't ever recall us abusing the wider public.

I remember Saturday nights in Portsmouth when the fleet was in were chaotic with the Navy Police, Army Redcaps and civil Police all trying to keep order, and Aldershot was even worse between individual Army units. Even Reading on Saturdays night could be quite a fearsome place but apart from the Teddy Boys the public were not involved. Perhaps things changed with the Mods and Rockers but nowadays bad conduct seems to break out anywhere.

Sadly I think that gentle policing no longer works, so I would now adopt the continental practice of using properly trained, equipped and controlled riot police to patrol public places and maintain order. I would also toughen up the law to deal with offenders. I don't like restricting people's activities but think its the only way to deal with this increasing problem.

The first ladette I was aware of was Zoe Ball whose idea of equality seemed to be, I can drink and swear as much as the boys! What a sad role model for young girls.

At one time, TV and radio appeared only to employ ladette types and these were the celebs young girls copied. I don't know if this is,still the case but sadly I think that is when that culture started.

I think papaoscar that there has always been an element of this sort of loutish behaviour in our society, mainly young males with too much testosterone and too few social skills. Sadly, nowadays, it's just as likely to be female 'ladettes', often foul-mouthed and loud.

Is this equality perhaps?

Petallus

'As I swung out of the park gates and into Greenwich itself two young men tucked in behind me, one of them riding a bike'

Cut and pasted from blog

I found Helen's article and your responses very interesting, very sad but very indicative of the poor state of public conduct in the UK today. Rowdy, loutish behaviour is liable to break out just about anywhere anytime and can lead to very unpleasant confrontations arising out of nothing. I travel around quite a bit and often see people of all ages and types exhibiting behaviour in publc which I find quite unacceptable.

This seems to be much worse in the UK and amongst UK people, and I have often been ashamed at the conduct of UK people abroad, and just walk away from them. What is needed is some self-discipline and sense of national self-control but I don't think we're going to get it. From top to bottom many aspects of the poor old UK have changed for the worse and the deteriorating standard of public behaviour is at the top of the list.

I hope he did learn a lesson, when I said he should replace the balloon he did not object, though of course he was surrounded by many people, including his 3 friends. My feelings at the time were that he had acted on impulse and regretted the action...... although he did have to have something to hand that would pierce the balloon.
He certainly had not expected mamma bear to pounce as she did. And yes, acting instantly was the way to go. And if I had not done anything about it I would have been angry all day, as it was , the matter was dealt with.

Well done! In those circumstances you have to act instantly, while you are still white-hot with anger.

I hope that boy learnt something from the episode.

Many years ago I took my 4 year old son to a local garden fete. Having bought a helium £3 balloon we were making our way out of the fete and passed by 4 lads of around 18 yrs, they were well dressed, well spoken and very presentable. One of them thought it was very funny to pop the balloon with a pin.
Oh boy... was I angry.
A man I knew was standing with his wife and quick as a flash I reached my child to him and said Hold him for a moment. I turned after the 4 boys who were only about 5 yards distant. I touched the culprit on the shoulder and asked if he was proud to have destroyed the child's balloon. And could I have £3 to pay for another balloon. He was taken aback and a bit embarrassed. He got out his wallet and said he had no coins, but he did have a £5 note in his hand, so I took the £5 from his hand and said.... In that case, we will have the £5 and consider it an expensive lesson. If you have any objection we will go over to that policeman (who was just across the way).
One new balloon - I was one proud mamma.

Good for you Helen! I did this when I was very young. I was with my young Son, in his pushchair, and there was a boy with two girls, using disgusting language. We were all walking along an underpass, near where I once lived. Took some courage to say something, as I was young too, but couldn't let it go. When I said something, the boy apologised, but I had a torrent of abuse from the girls.

I have only been a victim of street crime once, fortunately. This was when I was in my late teens, and I was set upon by a group of girls, something to do with one of them wanting a cigarette which I didnt have because I didnt smoke. It was all for effect and to show off, but was extremely unpleasant. I was taken all the way home on the train right to my door by a group of lads. A group who other people would have looked askance at.

From the OP

"two young men tucked in behind me, one of them riding a bike. They were loud in the way that young lads are."

This is slightly confusing. Does she mean that they were being loud in that way because they were young lads, or does she mean that although they were young men, they were behaving like young lads...?

The very idea makes me smile.

If it was ever said to me I'd think 'thank god for that'

Aka she says 'young lads'.

Hollydaze I agree we could sharpen up the fangs of authority (love that phrase) but should this only be applied to rowdy young lads?

What about men on building sites, M.Ps in the Houses of Parliament, a gang of drunk 30 year olds on a night out and probably a percentage of just about any other kind of male group you can think of (I said percentage because I am fully aware there are some very decent men about).

Young woman are routinely subjected to this kind of male harassment which older ones are usually blessedly free from except, of course, if we challenge such behaviour when they are likely to hit us where they think it hurts most.

They think pointing out that we are old and they don't fancy us is the best way to upset us.

The very idea makes me smile.

My DD travelled home to Sydney this week with a toddler who screamed most of the way, the journey from hell for all concerned. No one complained, in fact most passengers were sympathetic. A woman in the row behind had 2 young children who slept for most of the way, then woke up and as children do, wanted to chat and play for the remainder of the journey. A man behind them stood up and ranted and raged at the mother, telling her he wanted down time and to shut them up and had to be asked by the crew to desist. The difference between these two Mums? One was white European, the other Lebanese. I like to think he acted like this as he had just about had enough after hours of crying, but I don't think that was the case.
I used to ask people to pick up litter they had dropped or to temper their language in the street, but no longer. Too many drink fuelled, knife wielding people about these days... Although I did recently ask someone to control their dog which was prancing all over our picnic and cocking its leg on the pushchair and was greeted with a torrent of abuse and told the 'dog had rights'

She calls them 'young men' not boys of 11-12 I'd think.

I've only just got around to reading the OP.

I find I don't feel particularly sympathetic to the Poster (in fact I feel irritated) but I'm not sure why that is especially as I'm a feminist myself.

I wonder how old these boys were. Eleven or twelve? I don't think I'd ask children of that age to 'keep their sexist remarks to themselves in future' because that's an adult response to childish behaviour and the remarks were not made to me personally.

I would avoid confrontation unless it was absolutely necessary because I would expect the boys to respond aggressively in order not to lose face with each other.

I agree it is irritating when people are walking along too closely behind you, particularly if they are talking loudly on their phones.

Reminds me of once years ago when I was walking along in a lonely country lane. Two young boys came along on bikes and one said to the other 'let's rape her'. I still feel puzzled.

Sometimes, as a woman, it is quite hard to really understand the male way of thinking.

Anno we were once stranded along with two or three other narrowboats on the Ashton Canal in Openshaw (a not very salubrious part of Manchester) because the lock paddles were jammed.
Some youths came along and after shouting some abuse at us, started to try to smash the lock gates.
At which point the police were summoned and in a calm and non-confrontational way got them to desist.
They then gave us all a mobile no to call if we needed it, but we didn't.
The police come in for a lot of criticism and I think it's a pity that the good work they do often goes unnoticed and unpraised.

Well, our PCSOs spend all their time issuing parking tickets!
I live about 200 yards from the police station (closed to the public of course!) and I can't remember the last time I saw a PC on the beat.

In our small town, the introduction of PCSOs made a big difference to the problem of youths gathering in groups which may not have been really threatening but were often perceived as threatening by older residents, especially as they usually gathered close to an ATM. The PCSOs generally developed a rapport with the youngsters and no confrontations were reported.

Yes, I agree that something can be done by the police and local community in such cases where young people congregate in a certain place and cause a nuisance. It's the random occurences as in the OP which are more of a problem - by the time the police had come, if they'd been called, the lads would probably have been long gone.

Ana I accept that there are some areas where the police and other emergency services won't go without back-up, but I think generally the police are concerned with low-level nuisance because they recognise that verbal abuse etc does impinge on the quality of life.
I live in a pleasant part of Northumberland in a suburban estate, but some years ago there were problems with youths congregating, buying alcohol from the convenience store and then misbehaving in various ways along a particular path that runs between some houses.
That has largely stopped now, thanks to the combined efforts of the police, pressure from residents, the shop and the school.
It can be done - it's about people having the confidence to work together and saying something is unacceptable.