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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 19-Nov-15 11:03:28

Raising the pension age: is it really worth it?

We hear from social policy expert John Macnicol on the coming changes to the state pension age - and why he believes the government should be considering the alternatives.

John Macnicol

Raising the pension age: is it really worth it?

Posted on: Thu 19-Nov-15 11:03:28

(119 comments )

Lead photo

Who will lose most under the new State Pension policy?

Retirement has long presented a challenge for advanced industrial societies: it contributes greatly to economic efficiency and workforce turnover, yet it is also very expensive in terms of State Pension costs. Recent years have seen moves to raise state pension ages in the UK. They are henceforth to be linked to life expectancy, so that they could rise to 68 by the mid 2030s and 69 by the late 2040s.

Many commentators, particularly those from the business sector, would like to see ages even higher than this. Ostensibly, this is being done in response to demographic and fiscal pressures. Yet the annual increases in longevity are relatively small, and the real problem is the size of the age cohorts that will move into retirement in the future (caused by high birth rates in the late 1940s and the mid 1960s and by net in-migration). A little-mentioned motive is the neoliberal strategy of attempting to create economic growth by expanding labour supply, plus the fact that raising state pension ages has been a cause on the political right for decades (for example, Mrs Thatcher's cabinet considered raising the age to 70 in 1989).

...working another few years might not present many problems for middle class, white collar people, but it will be an impossibility for those worn out by heavy manual labour.


Is this a wise strategy? The awkward fact is that there is no necessary connection between the size of a workforce and its total productivity: the latter is much more a function of factors like technology, the price of raw materials, a country’s industrial structure, and so on. One can see this clearly illustrated in the cases of Germany (considered to be a model of economic virtue) and Greece (considered to be economically dysfunctional in many quarters), both of which have remarkably similar average ages of retirement and proportions of their populations aged 65+. In addition, there are several troubling issues: whether extending working lives will damage the job prospects of the young – an especially sensitive issue at a time of high youth unemployment; the fact that, were state pension ages raised to 69 tomorrow, some 1,500,000 to 3,500,000 new jobs would have to be created; how to overcome the manifest class and regional unfairness that will be exacerbated, given that de facto retirement ages vary greatly by social class, as does life expectancy at later ages (there is a seven-year difference in life expectancy at birth between the top and the bottom social classes); finally, working another few years might not present many problems for middle class, white collar people, but it will be an impossibility for those worn out by heavy manual labour.

There are other, more imaginative, humane and realistic policy alternatives – but they have been hardly considered: a citizen's income for all aged 60+ to supplement the diminishing earnings that most older workers experience, payable as of right and replacing the state pension; 'age management' policies targeted at older workers; employment quotas for older people, and so on.

Some of these would be quite controversial – but the direction in which we are heading may prove to be even more so.

John Macnicol is Visiting Professor in Social Policy at the London School of Economics. His new book, Neoliberalising Old Age is published by Cambridge University Press and available from Amazon.

By John Macnicol

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Cher53 Mon 23-Nov-15 00:32:59

I had weekend jobs from 14-16, left school at 18, like many worked before I married full-time and then when I had children any work I took fitted around them. I was full-time carer to my mum-in-law for about a year before she died. I will not get my state pension till I am 66. I worked till about my fifties and had to give up for health issues, having said this I and hubby mind our grandchildren while my daughter and her husband go out to work.

My husband is retired from the fire service and has nowhere near a yearly pension of £35,000 a year, I wish. We do own our own home BUT we struggled when during the 80s the interest rates were at about 16%,people around us were being re-possessed right , left and centre, anyone remember those times? We just gave up holidays, meals out etc. It was all we could do to pay our mortgage,bills and put food on the table. Everyone thinks when you are a public service worker, you are on easy street. This is not the case.

I have a friend whose husband is an emergency service worker, has been for many, many years. He is due to retire and when he does he will be out looking for another full-time job as they sadly, had negative equity (12 years of it). They will have another 10 years of their mortgage to pay. So things are not easy for them. I know of another friend, a former civil-servant who had to take medical retirement due to an accident. I can assure you she does not live a luxurious life either. There is a common misconception, that public service workers are all either rolling in it or 'lucky'. We worked for everything we have, no benefits, no handouts, nothing from anyone with the exception of child benefit. We did our best to support ourselves and bring up our children and care for our elderly relatives. I try not to judge others by appearances, sometimes what you see from the outside is not the full picture.

JiltedPensioner Wed 25-Nov-15 15:18:39

Please all sign the e-petition which on reaching 100,000 signatures will trigger a debate in parliament. I would particularly urge those of you who are lucky enough to be in receipt of your pension to support those less fortunate. Thank you.
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/110776

JiltedPensioner Wed 25-Nov-15 19:16:04

Gracegran says "The reduction in the Single Tier pension will not put you in a worse position than you would have been under the old system".
This is sadly not true, Gracegran you have not taken into account the loss of up to 6 years' pension totalling approx. £36,000. In my own case, I have not only lost £36,000 at the outset but my new Single Tier Pension will be approx. £130 per week not the £155 publicised. I have a company pension of around £3,000 per annum which is why I will lose around £25 a week State Pension.

I would urge you all to get a State Pension forecast - 58% will not receive the full amount when it is introduced.

Please also sign the petition - details in post above.

Rhonab Wed 25-Nov-15 19:19:31

I slaved for many years in the catastrophe that is the NHS (night shift, weekends, every holiday you can mention and more) and am forever thankful that I was able to take early retirement at 55 with my full NHS pension as I was one of the special classes.

I was superannuated since I was 18, and it was a hefty slice of my wage, so no idea where the idea of my pension being free came from???

My pension is just over £800 a month so had the lovely husband not come along several years ago to save me, I would have had to continue working until I caught up with state pension age at 67 ... or maybe higher by then! Although I always assumed I would work to 60 I couldnt imagine being able to carry on much beyond that, never mind an extra 7 years. My patients would had to look after me, methinks! I can see many people being forced into prolonged sick leave simply due to being unfit for the job as they get older, rather than actually being ill.

Far from being useless members of society (nay, a drain) we regularly look after our wee granddaughter to help out, and can visit my ancient mother regularly and be of use to her too.
We're very lucky to have our life, if not luxurious its at least very comfortable thanks to the husbands decent pension.

JiltedPensioner Thu 26-Nov-15 21:46:52

Rhonab - Did you sign the petition to support those over 60's women who have no choice but to continue working?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/110776

Thank you.

nannymoocow Sat 28-Nov-15 21:44:48

Please all gransnet ladies and your friends and families sign the WASPI petition, link above. Anyone can sign, it needs to get to 100,000 and is currently at 43,000. Even if you are not affected by the changes please support those who are.

trisher Tue 01-Dec-15 11:09:58

Signed for you. I was lucky enough to get out at 60. One thing no-one seems to be looking at is the amount of voluntary work undertaken by the newly retired who are fit and healthy. As the age increases and people retire later they will not be available to run the charity shops, drop in centres, fundraisers and countless other activities they currently organise. You don't stop being active when you retire but no one seems to regard this work as being 'economically active'.

Primrose Tue 01-Dec-15 11:22:41

My actual retirement age was 60 but it would have been financially impossible for me to retire and I continue to work full time at the age of 69 and, if possible, I hope to carry on to my early 70's. I am fortunate in that I am reasonably healthy and working is not too problematical. However if I were in poor health or in manual work I doubt that I would have been able to continue. I can appreciate that life expectancy has increased but this does not prevent workers in their 60's from succumbing to various physical problems. I am unsure what the answer is sadly.

GranJan60 Wed 02-Dec-15 15:22:35

Again, PLEASE publicise WASPI campaign and sign petition. If you watched Parliament debate today you will see that despite persuasive argument, the Gvmt Seem determined not to budge. There was a lot of talk about benefits being available to Carers, those ill etc and even more about the opportunities(?) To work for those over 60. As you will know that is all total b..s and it's impossible to get another job because of ageism except for zero hours etc. Please be as vocal as possible and hopefully Gmnt will have to think again if enough people complain. We should not be treated as scroungers just because we are asking for what we have paid for all these years.

etheltbags1 Thu 03-Dec-15 21:25:17

Don't get me started on this one I too have to work till 66, I fully expected to get my state pension at 60. grrrr

Bralee Tue 15-Dec-15 13:08:29

The pension change has me fuming beyond words that I cannot print! I am a 57 year old woman who worked from 14 and paid tax and N.I. Every single week. I only had 2 weeks off for the birth of my daughter, taking her with me to work the week after she was born. Albeit I worked in our family company. I so looked forward to taking my pension at 65 and feel robbed and furious the age has been moved. the thought of working another 9 years leaves me feeling billious!

Bagatelle Sun 20-Dec-15 12:11:18

With four years to go so I got a pension statement/forecast, just to check the situation. I was surprised to find that the few years during which I worked for a few hours hours per week for the County Council counted as 'contracted out' even though I was also self-employed full-time and paying the full Class 2 and 4 NI contributions. This would have resulted in my losing probably more than I gained from that very small pension. As it is, I should have enough years for the full pension by the time I actually get it, so long as the goalposts don't get moved again.

It is very complicated. You really do need to get a pension statement/forecast and question anything that doesn't look right. Be prepared for a long wait when you phone the helpline.

DotMH1901 Wed 23-Dec-15 16:15:14

Maggiemaybe I'm in the same situation as you, born August 1955 and have to wait until I am 66 to get my state pension (if they haven't increased the age again before then!). I have worked full time since I was 16 and always paid the full NI contribution. Not what I was told when I started work! I belong to a pressure group trying to get the Government to realise the problems this change is causing people in our age group, we are on Facebook and Twitter and have a petition in process too.

Willow500 Thu 24-Dec-15 06:55:47

Having been self employed in my husband's business for 22 years and paying into a private pension for the last 10-12 years of that we thought we would be ok at pension age. Wrong! The business had to close, the pension we had taken out was badly advised and the pot diminished rapidly due to high costs and general economic downturn so was worth only a fraction of what we thought and was then frozen as we couldn't continue the payments. I also chose to pay married women's contributions at the beginning and having had only part time work with no NI contributions prior to that I am now solely reliant on the payments I have made in the last 12 years being fully employed. I had always been told my retirement age would be 60 - now it will be 65 years 9 months. I will be 62 in 2 months so can 'look forward' to almost another 4 years of work. My husband is the same age and still also working full time driving an hour to work and back every day. Neither of us can afford to retire. Next year the new Workplace Pension comes in when everyone will be forced to contribute and all employers too - this is the only way future generations are likely to have any income at retirement age and possibly should have been brought in much earlier to help those like us who fell into this unfair pension age gap. I've signed the petition.

adnil1949 Sat 26-Dec-15 10:28:26

I was one of the luckiest, being born in October 1949. I was one of the last before all the changes were made. My mum was still alive at the time of my retirement and I thanked her for having me then. I don`t think I could have worked any longer.

wondergran Thu 07-Jan-16 18:41:07

Sorry I haven't read all the posts on here so my apologies if I am duplicating earlier messages. So many people under about 70 are receiving their pension but still working. I guess a lot of people just can't manage on the state pension alone or simply do not want to stop working. In effect this means that the state pays out their retirement pension but they don't actually free up the job for someone else to take so it's not really benefitting anyone apart from those lucky enough to have two good or reasonable incomes. The issue of pensions and retirement in general will become more and more highlighted as people live longer and the number of people continue to migrate to this country. It's not going to be an easy one to resolve I don't think.

Strawberry10 Thu 07-Jan-16 20:14:24

Absolutely. I am 60 and have just been made redundant. I have to find a job for the next 6 years when under the normal scheme of things I would be retired and claiming my pension. I have worked since I was 16. Today's youth will retire later, yes, but they don't start their working life until much later. In all those years I had been working towards retirement at 60 and just as I get there the goalposts have moved. If it was going to happen it should have been phased in gradually.{angry}

Sadiesnan Fri 08-Jan-16 15:42:57

I was born in 1954, so I'm one of the biggest losers, so to speak.

hjw2505 Fri 08-Jan-16 21:16:43

I am 60 and will have to work until at least 66, not just because of the changes to state pension but also because my OH, already aged 65, will get a state pension of around £30 a week, because he spent mist of his working life in Australia and the UK does not have any reciprocal pension agreement with Aus. We will both have to live off my state pension and my occupational pension, which would only amount to a maximum of 50% of my salary, but in my case will be less because of years working part-time when I was a single mum. Paying FAVCs will increase my pension a bit, but we will be facing a radically reduced lifestyle when I retire. I worry that I will have the health and energy to continue working fir another 6 years and have any time or energy to have any reasonable work/lufe balance

LynC Sat 16-Jan-16 15:10:47

It is a myth that private company pensions do not compare. My brother will retire at 61 on 2/3 rds pension. Given that he will not require business clothes for work, travel costs etc tax but no NI or pension contributions, he will not be worse off. Many many people get excellent company pensions.
Also it is disengenuous to complain about state employees pensions, who contributed just like everyone does, the government never invested it, so it was always going to be paid from taxation. Finally look at MP pensions, particularly the PMs, they are state employees too.

Penstemmon Sat 16-Jan-16 16:15:05

I retired from a regular salaried job at 60. I had a good career and earned a good salary. I also paid AVCs for the last 18 years at work to compensate for the 'gap' in earnings when I had my children.

I have a good teachers' pension but I paid for it from my salary. It is NOT over £26k p.a. & is under half my final salary! I still work independently now and do get the state pension too. I was born early 1951!

It is so hard when rules change and I have every sympathy for those stuck in the fall out of pension policy! It is a nightmare!

downtoearth Sat 16-Jan-16 16:56:21

I have just started to receive my pension in october 2015,aged 62 and 9 mths I consider myself lucky. I was born Dec 1952. I have signed the petition.My partner 20 years my junior has had to take a 10 year break from work to support our family fighting a high court case for 6 years for custody of my grandaughter after my daughters death,we had to have legal aid.we had to claim benefits in my name as I was the carer with PR,which has left him 10 years without contributions which we could not afford to pay,I dread to think what his retirement will be like as I am more likely to die first.we cannot afford to catch up even though he is working.

Alima Sat 16-Jan-16 21:09:22

I have signed the petition. I am due to get my pension from November 6th. Could anyone tell me when I will receive the first payment? Is it paid a month in arrears or a month in advance. I have been doing a mental countdown and cannot work out if it is ten months or 11 months to go.

Regalo Sat 16-Jan-16 21:22:19

Your facts are not correct JessM...I was a deputy head and earned nowhere near the £50k you are suggesting . I earned £34000 and my take home pension is £724 per month. Hardly luxurious living. We have my husbands pension too but have to supplement each month from savings. State pension kicks in in just over six years so we hope our savings last or we are stuffed!

durhamjen Sat 16-Jan-16 22:17:55

Pensions to be discussed on Monday afternoon in Parliament.
Roz Altmann being questioned by a committee. It will be on parliament TV.