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KatGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 28-Jan-16 10:33:12

Nobody to call me Madam?

What's killing the traditional department store? Jane Tulloch shares her tale of the theatrical ambience and glitz of department stores in the late 1960s, and wonders what has happened to them.

Jane Tulloch

Nobody to call me Madam?

Posted on: Thu 28-Jan-16 10:33:12

(130 comments )

Lead photo

"These shops did more than sell goods: they sold us on luxury and pleasure: they made us feel special."

Whatever happened to the good old fashioned department stores of yore? The ones where they called you madam and there were delicate little chairs at each counter for madam to perch on as she discussed her order with the attentive black-dressed assistant.

The ones where you could buy (and have delivered) anything from a pin to a grand piano with everything and anything else in between. Such department stores used to be found in every large town and city throughout the country. In Cardiff there was Howells, in Bradford Brown, Muff and Co, Manchester had Kendal Milne. London had several including Harrods of course, as well as Liberty’s, Whitely’s and Dickins and Jones.

A few, a brave few of these traditional department stores, do remain although almost as tourist attractions and tending to be owned by large overseas conglomerates rather than the families who used to own and run them.

I well remember the thrill of entering a large department store in Edinburgh: the door was swung wide for us by a uniformed commissionaire who touched his cap to my mother and gave every indication that she was known to him and her custom appreciated. She nodded regally. I was impressed. I was even more impressed when taken for a half term treat of lunch in the dining room of a large Glasgow department store. While we consumed our meal, beautiful models wandered coolly around the tables in a range of expensive outfits and elegantly displayed key features such as velvet lapels or fan pleated skirts for our awed pleasure. These shops did more than sell goods: they sold us on luxury and pleasure: they made us feel special.

We weren't allowed to sit down, forbidden to fold our arms and banned from saying “Can I help you?” to customers (too off-putting apparently.)


Often beautiful, these old shops were almost theatrical in ambience. It was only when I began to work in one as a summer job in the 1970s that I realised that there was very much a backstage and a front of house. I could see clearly that the assistants were performing a role for the public but also that they had stories of their own. Each department was a venue for a drama, each customer and staff member a potential audience or actor. Of course, this potential had already been spotted and used by the 1970s sitcom “Are you being served” but, with its focus purely on comedy, a great deal was overlooked.

We had such fun there despite what now seem incredibly outdated rules and regulations. We weren’t allowed to sit down, forbidden to fold our arms and banned from saying “Can I help you?” to customers (too off-putting apparently.) The senior sales assistants (but not us juniors) were on commission and earned a massive 1p in every £2.40! The January sales were a time to dread: just looking at the tidal wave of ladies intent on bargains rushing down the department towards us was terrifying. This was mitigated by the laughs we had: calling each other ridiculous names in front of customers without smiling, sabotaging tasteful displays, treasure hunts around departments, complicated April fools tricks, and other examples of youthful exuberance. I’m sure gransnetters have many similar tales as customers and staff.

Why did these lovely stores decline from the late 1960s to 70s? Was it because we were seduced away by the proliferation of “boutiques” for our trendy clothing? The explosion of very modern chain stores on our high streets? Were the old department stores too hopelessly difficult to update? Most likely a combination of all these in conjunction with the dire economic times prevailing.

I miss them now there is nowhere left to call me madam.

Jane's new book, Our Best Attention is published by Comely Back Publishing and is available from Amazon.

Post your comments below for a chance to win one of five copies of Our Best Attention.

By Jane Tulloch

Twitter: @JaneTulloch1

Antonia Mon 01-Jan-18 21:20:54

One of my friends and I both had Saturday jobs - mine in Woolworths and hers in a well known luxury department store. A customer of hers, obviously wealthy, came to ask for a refund on an umbrella, which she duly got with no questions asked. It turned out that the store had not stocked that particular brand of umbrella for fifteen years!

varian Tue 26-Sep-17 13:46:50

I hope it's not too late to add to this thread. I've just read Jane's book "Our Best Attention" and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't read much fiction as I've always had a lot of work related reading to do.

I am now on holiday and my ideal light reading material is a collection of short stories so each can be read between swimming, sightseeing and eating. Jane's book was ideal.

I well remember visits to the various department stores in Glasgow in the 1950s and early 60s. In Sauchiehall Street there was Pettigrew and Stevens, Copeland and Lye and Dalys (probably the most upmarket). In Argyll Street there was Lewis's and Arnott Simpson's (not quite so smart) and in Buchanan Street there was MacDonald's (which was also pretty smart). I think there was a House of Fraser somewhere but I can't remember where it was. Jane's creation Murray's struck a lot of bells. Very nostalgic.

I like the idea of each story being complete on it's own, yet relating to the same setting. It was good to set it in the early 70s as I think very few if any of these stores remain. Those that do still exist seem to be just brand franchises under one roof and we cannot now be assured of their " best attention".

Well done, Jane. I hope you will write another one.

Jane10 Thu 24-Mar-16 13:32:34

I've just read that McEwans of Perth has had to close its doors. 130 staff now out of work but more than that a whole way of shopping life gone. sad

HannahLoisLuke Thu 24-Mar-16 11:28:55

I remember the programme about the lion cub bought in Harrods by two young antique dealers. They used to take him to work at their shop and kept him in the basement. His name was Christian. When he became an adult they realised that they couldn't keep a lion as a pet and so, with the help of the Born Free Trust (I think) they took him to Kenya to be introduced to the wild. They visited him several times and he would greet them ecstatically until on a later visit about two years later he wasn't interested. I have the book and DVD of the story. Still brings tears to my eyes.

Sorry about the deviation from the thread on department stores. I remember the old fashioned ones too. And Wilma I remember Owen Owen in Coventry. Wondered where it had gone. I didn't realise it was now a Primark as I hardly ever go to Coventry even though I'm only about ten miles away.

Jane10 Thu 24-Mar-16 09:41:07

Oh that sounds so civilised Jodygran. A library too. Sigh. I'd sort of hoped that Harrods and Liberty's were still nice places to go and be treated as valued customers. Oh well. Back to the online shopping!

Jodygran Thu 24-Mar-16 09:28:46

I too have fond memories of department stores. I lived in central London so had many to choose from. Barkers and Derry and Toms in Kensington High Street, a great treat to have tea on the Derry.s Roof garden with its view over London (up till recently I know it was still there....but without the elegance of the 50s! With a pianist in the afternoon). And frequent visits to Harrods (of course still there, but last time I visited I left quickly)....it is hardly recognisable and the once lovely huge toy department, with its Rocking Horses, Board Games and Wendy Houses to play (quietly) in, is now a noisy arena of flashing lights, beeping toys - the usual selection..and disinterested sales assistants. My sister worked in the Harrod,s Library (long gone i think) and my greatest treat when back from school was to curl up behind her desk and see her greet "her" customers ( it was alphabetical, each letter of the Alphabet allocated to their own librarian, she had the Ms. They came and sat in a comfy chair and were recommended the best
books for them. Another world...we hardly even have libraries now either.

Elrel Sat 05-Mar-16 17:17:22

Thanks Jane. I'm trying to write a family history for cousins and GC - I didn't remember much about the role the department stores played in family life until I found this thread!

Jane10 Sat 05-Mar-16 14:15:08

Sounds lovely Elrel. How interesting to hear of your father's sales book. Calculating commission was no fun pre decimalisation. Fancy a restaurant called 'The Gay Tray'. Brilliant name but unlikely to be revived these days!

Elrel Sat 05-Mar-16 13:55:22

Lovely thread invoking memories! My father worked in Men's Wear in Lewis's Birmingham (not connected to John Lewis which we only got in 2015. When Rackhams, now House of Fraser opened he moved there.
When at Lewis's his 'book' was a feature of our evenings. He'd get it out, full of records of previous year's sales, (he was on commission) and compare with the past year. I recall his satisfaction if he had 'done his day' and sold more, his worry if for no obvious reason he hadn't. At Rackham's his special responsibility was to measure customers for the 'made to measure' suits which were then made in the Leeds area. He was often asked for by name by regulars and used to tell us of local celebrities who had been in. After Carnaby Street began he disappointed a young Crossroads actor who had asked to have a blue velvet suit made, explaining that the fabric was quite unsuitable for tailoring!!
My mother love to visit their restaurants one of which was called The Gay Tray! She also had her hair done there occasionally as a special treat.
In earlier years at Lewis's I'd sit on a fairground type animal and have my hair cut and SINGED with a wax taper. I liked the smell of singeing hair! There was a Pets department which I loved to go round and see the animals and birds. In the Spring, a display of plants and live rabbits and chicks on the roof. The Pets department was closed eventually due, I think, to a member of staff contracting psittacosis from a parrot.
My mother and I returned to Lewis's about 1960s to see a fashion show including a brief speech by Mary Quant. I was surprised to see another woman, a London journalist I think, apparently wearing wellies with a smart suit. I had not seen leather fashion boots before and thought it looked odd. Unbelievable now!
Apologies for getting carried away - if you actually read this far!

Jane10 Wed 02-Mar-16 17:38:38

I'm glad you're enjoying it grandma60. I've heard a lot of good things about Owen Owens. How nice that they have a trust fund for former employees. Sad that it had to close though.
I must say that I enjoy writing about my imaginary posh store and keeping it all going if only in fictional form.

grandma60 Wed 02-Mar-16 16:44:54

Jane I'm about half way through your book. I worked in Owen Owen Southampton ( formally May,s) for about 5 years in the 80s so quite some time after the period yours was set in. Even so it really took me back. There were so many characters there that had worked there for years and there was quite a formal atmosphere compared to the workplace today. Older staff told us that years before you had to stand in line each morning for inspections of uniform, hair and nails! When it closed in 1992 a lot of the regular customers told us how sad they were that it was closing, but unfortunately they really only came in to browse but bought what they wanted much cheaper in the chain stores.

A couple of years ago there was a reunion at a local hotel where we were invited to apply to the Owen Owen Trust Fund if we needed to.
Thank you for this lovely book.

annifrance Tue 23-Feb-16 23:44:28

I remember Bobbys too, Jalima. It was the same in Heelas of Reading, now a wonderful John Lewis store.

I am still mourning the death of Dickens and Jones - I used to nearly live there!

And Harabs isn't Harrods anymore.

shelana Thu 18-Feb-16 10:43:12

Jane 10,yes the outfits and accessories in the shop are designer labelled but there is a lovely,friendly atmosphere and customers are greeted as they enter.My GD says is often asked by the other assistants how she relates so easily to older people--and she tells them she practices on me!

Jane10 Thu 18-Feb-16 10:32:43

Sounds lovely Shelana. Blimey though, coffee and champagne? It must be an extremely expensive place!
I suppose good customer service actually costs nothing. Its all in the attitude and that tends to filter down from the management. Ah well!

shelana Thu 18-Feb-16 10:29:05

Wilma,I worked in Owen Owen in the late 40's as a holiday job.I was assigned to the stockings counter but longed to be promoted to more interesting fashions department.It never happened.Now my grand daughter is working in an exclusive Ladies Shop.Customers get that old fashioned attention and are offered coffee or even champagne on special days.Husbands have comfortable seats and newspapers.But all this comes at a cost!Most department stores expect you to serve yourself and then they will take your money!

EmilyHarburn Wed 17-Feb-16 11:55:47

My local department store was the London co-op. We lived in a small town on the outskirts of London which was 22 miles away. I was so pleased when at last as a teenager, walking into the store carrying my handbag, and wearing my hat and white gloves the shop assistants addressed me as 'madam'. I really felt I had been recognised as a grown up, and must be on my best behaviour.

I now live up north and until a few years agon the old family department stores still had shop assistants who gave one the same courtesies. Today however the younger generation have been employed, it would seem in some cases without any training. They talk to each other, not the customer, do not know their stock and seem to have no idea how to help.

I have to say however, some the the chain stores such as Next, Anne Summers & Marks and Spencer, do seem to have a training programme.

However I am doing more click and collect so as not to have to search the rails in person. I have not however tried the buyer service which stores like Debenhams have.

I's love to read Jane's new book Our Best Attention.

WilmaKnickersfit Fri 12-Feb-16 20:38:49

My book arrived today and I'm going on a long coach journey on Thursday, so I will save it for then. Thank you!

Marelli Thu 11-Feb-16 22:54:06

annsixty, I can't remember Farmers' store, but now I think of it, Toby's would have been on Friar's Gate (or Lane?) Not far from the Market Square - or Slab Square as it was affectionately known!

Marelli Thu 11-Feb-16 22:48:49

I received my book today - thank you! Really looking forward to reading it. smile

grandma60 Thu 11-Feb-16 20:54:54

Got mine as well. Looks really goodsmile

Greyduster Thu 11-Feb-16 19:40:15

I also received mine today, and am looking forward to reading it. Many thanks indeed.

Bellanonna Thu 11-Feb-16 19:15:18

Got mine today. Thank you so much !!

annsixty Wed 10-Feb-16 21:18:56

Marelli today I had a phone call from a friend of 50 years who still lives in Nottingham and I told her of our thread and. she said the store I was thinking of was Farmers and Toby's was on Friars Gate. Does that ring a bell with you?

Marelli Mon 08-Feb-16 10:39:18

Thank you so much - what a lovely surprise! smile

Jane10 Sat 06-Feb-16 11:33:39

The books will make their way to the winners as soon as GNHQ collate and pass on addresses. Thanks to everyone for such interesting posts. Sorry there could only be five winners.