Just before my mother died, she was extremely ucid, and seemed happy. She wasn't drugged a week beforehand, but she asked the neighbour in the two bed ward if she'd mind putting the armchair next to the bed. She told her she was going to have a visitor, her husband. Dad had died over twenty years ago, in the '70s.

"He'll be here soon," she told her. We questioned Mum at visiting time, telling her Dad couldn't visit, he'd died. She was doing her crossword puzzle and smiled. "He's on his way, trust me," she said.

A week later she'd been sitting up in bed and I was combing her hair. She was weak, but able to chat about things. She put her hand up suddenly and said "What's that at the end of the bed?" I told her there was nothing there. She said "It's fluttering, like a butterfly. You must be able to see it?"

She got quite agitated when I said I couldn't. "It's really bright and pretty. Look, it's there!" This lasted for about ten minutes or more and she was convinced something fluttering was at the end of her bed. She really wanted us to confirm it, but there was nothing there.

She went to sleep that evening, quite contented and smiling, telling her family she'd be "right as rain after a good nights sleep."

She never woke from that sleep and I am SO grateful she died feeling positive.

TriciaF = "But as someone once said, if it is, heaven must be a very crowded place."

I know what you mean, but when I had my experience there was no flesh involved. The flesh does die, perish, but the spirit (or whatever I firmly believe exists) may be no more that a breath...a sigh. They won't be taking up space. I look at grains of sand on the beach; could we ever count all the grains of sand in the world?

My experience only led me to believe I am a carrier or a vessel for - well, for no idea, but whatever it is, it's strong and independent of the body. I so firmly believe we go on.

I agree bikergran. We may not know what form it will take but I believe in some way all that love that we feel for someone cannot be lost. I hope not anyway. That is what faith is all about. It's not knowledge or certainty it is faith.

When my lovely DH was near the end of his life,about 20 minutes prior he suddenly looked up to the right hand corner of the bedroom ceiling, he opened his eyes so wide almost in disbelief, he then more or less closed his eyes and about 5 minutes later put his hand up and waved towards the end of the bed, he did this three times in about 5 mins, he passed away about 20 mins later...he must have seen some one or something! we will never know who or what and will never know if he was waving "hello" or "goodbye"

One of the many times he had been taken in hospital with a heart attack..he had come back round from his attack but they said he may have another within a short time, his son came to visit him it was late at night... my DH opened his eyes and said to his son "there's a vulture sat on your shoulder"! my DH recovered and lived another 5 yrs but he always remembered seeing the vulture on his sons shoulder (and he was a very nice son son nothing to do with anything)
I think and hope that there is some kind of afterlife a we all have to believe we will see our loved ones again, otherwise the pain is just too much.

I'll look out for you there whitewave. I'll be the one wearing the 'I told you there was an afterlife' tee shirt!

No there is no "afterlife".

I think the next life is our real life, it'll be like returning home.

I believe that NOBODY knows what happens to you when you die. But when it happens it all becomes clear and you find yourself thinking "Oh, this is what it is all about".

Day 6 - I believe you.

A friend of mine had gone into a hospice and her daughter was to pick me up that afternoon for a visit. Early that morning I was sitting in the garden with the first cuppa of the day and thinking of nothing in particular, when I saw my friend pass through from one side of the garden to the other; it only took about four or five seconds. Later that day her daughter phoned to say her mum had died - at the time I 'saw' her.

Another time I was 400 miles from home visiting my daughter and my first grandchild; we were walking along by the sea and had just stopped to chat with a friend of my daughter, when I suddenly became aware of my own mother standing just behind me; the feeling was so strong that I stood to one side so she could see into the pram. My mother had died a few months earlier and had had no idea my daughter was expecting...

I have had other 'awarenesses' too, of various sorts, some of which have been independently corroborated later.

Yes there is, like Annie as a Christian I believe it absolutely. When my son died I felt a wonderful presence in the room with me at the moment of his death I believe it was Jesus or an Angel come to guide him because he was a child. It gives me huge comfort to think I will see him again one day. Faith doesn't need proof I can't explain it to you I just know.

Strangely? Co-incidentally? Late last night my daughter and I were sitting in the kitchen having a blether and watching Andy Murray. DD, who is an Independent Celebrant, was telling me about a family she had interviewed earlier in connection with arranging their elderly Father/Grandfather's funeral. None of this family were religious but the conversation had turned to discussing their personal experiences of 'visitations' from people they had known who had passed. DD said that quite often families would tell her about signs, sights and feelings of the presence of the recently deceased.

I told DD about this thread on Gransnet and the two of us reminisced about the morning after my DF died, when at exactly 9.00am there was a two minute power cut - not in the whole village, just in our street and the adjoining street where DF & DM lived. Just a coincidence? perhaps more, when I explain that my DAD was a Control Engineer with the Power Company responsible for 'switching' and rerouting power if their was a line down, overload or accident. He had often explained that our village was 'double fed' such that if there was a power cut, power would be restored within 2 minutes by simply feeding from the other direction.

Anyway, just as DD and I moved on to another topic, the ceiling light above the sink, which has not worked for at least a couple of years started to flash on and off. Spooky or what? We laughed a bit nervously and simultaneously called out 'Hello Dad' and 'Hiya Grandad'.

There are more things in Heaven and Earth .......

Scientists have discovered dark energy - which makes up most of the universe - what's lurking in that?

Jane true. Just like the Universe

It could be limitless! Who knows?!

I do hope that's true, Lucy.
But as someone once said, if it is, heaven must be a very crowded place.

I am a great believer in the Afterlife. I have not experienced a near death myself but how would true spiritualists be able to contact our loved one's otherwise?
I have been with parents near to passing over and they all talk to their loved one's already in heaven as though they are calling to them.
I remember my Nan telling me that just as my Granddad died in her arms he suddenly looked up and his face lit up as though he were seeing people or someone he had not seen for a long time, then he passed over.

The was an interesting article in the Times about Paul Robertson a well respected musician who had heart problems and died several times while in hospital. He had many vision while he was in this state and it profoundly changed his life. He was never a well man afterwards and hoped to ' leave this life with the lightness of a small bird " . His book is called Soundscapes: A musician's Journey through life and Death

I almost had an 'out of body' experience (or perhaps it just felt like one). There was once a time in my life when I had frequent insomnia. On one such night, I had been awake for at least an hour when I started hearing a very loud, persistent buzzing in my ears. A few seconds later, I felt as if the bed sheet was slipping off my body at the same time that I was being lifted high above my bed. I tried to reach down to my husband but I couldn't move and it was as if I was paralyzed. Panicked, it took every ounce of will that I could muster to let out a scream. As soon as I cried out, I fell abruptly to my bed again. My husband woke up when he heard what sounded more like a groan than a scream. When I described what had just happened to me, he tried to reassure me by telling me it was a just a bad dream and as he aptly pointed out "I would know because I was here right next to you and you never even moved" (?!)

For myself, I don't think we can know definitely.
I believe in a God, and in my religion there are many opinions about what happens after we die. Some believe in a kind of reincarnation, that we're sent back to correct some serious fault of a previous life.
I think we just do our best while we're here and won't find out until we die which version is true, if any.
I like the idea of living on in the hearts of those we love. And in their genes too.

wot There was no need for an apology. Your remark was NOT meant to be hurtful.

Day6 - I totally know what you mean. See my post about my experience about being in Labour and leaving my body for about two minutes - not at all frightening.

I have tod this story before, but I 'left my body' for about five minutes whilst at work, way back in 1978. I am still here to tell the tale and the experience - my 'inner' splitting from my flesh - rising up above me and looking down on me in a detached manner, left me very open to the possibility that the flesh does indeed die and perish, but our spirit is strong and only inhabits our body for its journey, as though it had been designated to us, but boxed up inside us. Whatever happened to me was weird, but as in the OP, I was looking down on myself in quite a detached manner and contemplating the vessel/woman used to house me, who was sitting below, working. Whatever left me had no body, but it did have such - strength, for want of a better word. It also saw things from the ceiling, like dust on the top of 7ft tall bookcases, and things happening outside, through the skylights at the top of the room. I always sort of apologise when telling of this, believing people will imagine I am barking or on some sort of hippy trip, but I am very grounded and down to earth. I wasn't that day though. This thing, very benign, which had escaped, returned to my body. I was going through the motions at work, but I suddenly felt extremely aware and super-alert to goings on around me. It was a strange but very comforting experience. I wasn't on drugs or drink nor was I day dreaming! I cannot explain it, but it happened, and since then I feel changed and privileged in a way to know that my body is just a carrier for something else. My adult son is cynical and comes up with all sorts of reasons for why I feel as I do, and try as I might, I cannot convince him I 'separated' into spirit (if that's what it was?) and flesh. I believe there is more to life. Only a few of us know about it though!

I find this thread very difficult to follow, probably because several posts have been deleted.

I fail to see that ones beliefs or lack of them determine whether they are a good or bad person.

I know people of various beliefs, Christian, Buddhist. Muslim, atheist, agnostic etc. IMO they are all people I am proud to call friends.
I guess I would be classed as an agnostic.

I have the courage to admit when I'm wrong and appologise.....sorry.