Has anyone told you that the children don't suffer granny piper? I must have missed it if that has been said.
There are many gransnetters who have personal or professional, or sometimes experience of both on the impact on children of having parents who are dependent on substances, whether that be alcohol or drugs.

Please dont tell me the children dont suffer, i know they do, i worked with the children of drug addicts and their lives are awful.Babies are born addicted to the mothers drug of choice and have to be weaned off the drug, this heartbreaking to see and hear. How do we justify that ?

What about the children of addicts ? alcohol is not addictive from the first drink and it causes enough problems in households, Heroin is addictive form the outset so would cause suffering from the start.

Drugs = big money for those that control the supply. The local / street dealers are often users too. If you take away the monopoly on supply there may be a chance to prevent an increase in use and reduce the numbers that take the journey from 'soft' to 'hard' drugs. Whatever is happening now is not very effective!

When I was working, amphetamine combined with alcohol as drugs of choice seemed to create the more unstable, often very aggressive individuals. It may, of course, have been the people in the drugs, rather than the drugs in the people that caused this. Something about drugs of choice I suspect. I would not oppose the legalisation of cannabis though smoking is always to be avoided where possible. Countries that have taken a health rather than criminal approach to drugs seem to have better outcomes, less drug use, than we do.
I often wonder about national characteristics/culture etc - look at those Hogarth cartoons of gin lane and remember that Britain seems always to have been excessive where mind altering substances are concerned.

Yup I remember a long time ago someone telling me that an office in Cardiff was awash with cocaine, and I believe it is cheaper now. Go back 20-30 years and it was £60 a go.
We should be grateful that we do not have the problem with crack cocaine that they do in the states and the US. Really nasty drug that makes people high and aggressively so, for prolonged periods (according to my source).
There's a lot of dodgy money going through the drugs industry, none of it taxed. It then, presumably has to be laundered one way or another, leading to more crime.

grannypiper Nobody is suggesting that legally regulated heroin should be freely available to just anybody. The model suggested by Transform Drug Policy Foundation is of medical prescriptions and supervised consumption venues for registered dependent users of the highest-risk drugs such as heroin. People who become dependent on heroin don’t set out to become that way. There are a multitude of reasons why it happens. If they did not have to rely on illegal dealers and supplies most would be able to get on with reasonably normal or even successful lives. You probably wouldn’t be able to tell that such a person was a heroin user. I think that is a far preferable outcome to the chaotic lifestyles they end up in at the moment, which too often tragically end in an early death because of the unknown nature of their illicit drug.

Alcohol is mind altering too

Cannabis should be legalised and available just as alcohol and cigarettes are. Ok it has it#s dangers and problems as do alcohol and cigarettes, but better that the quality be controlled.

The police do not have the resources to control the current situation, they need to concentrate on the suppliers of hard drugs.

Drug users need help not prison, it's the suppliers that want locking up.

If someone is imprisoned for drug offences, it beggars belief that those drugs that put them inside are freely available inside. That is a crime in itself. How can that not be tackled. Anyone that thinks cannabis is harmless is deluded, it is mind altering, that is why it is taken. How much it disturbs the brain is to a large extent dependant on the individual, what ruins one person almost straight away could take years for someone else. I think these drug barons that get people and children onto drugs not fit to live, they are committing mass murder, there is no excuse. Seized their assets, expose them. There is no deterrent now, people with loads of money frighten their victims into silence and if they are caught get clever lawyers to get them off on a technicality. Victims of crime do not get the justice they deserve.

Can you really see your local drug addicts queuing at their pharmacy when the chap down the road will bring it to your door and they will be stronger

Depends on what part of the addiction cycle they're at.
At rock bottom, no, they won't get the legal stuff and will go to dirty squats, but not all addicts look like that! When they're trying to reduce and get better, yes I think they'll avoid the dealers and the dirty squats and go for the pharmacy

And not every heroin addict is hopeless and homeless, some are "functional"

But it's not just about the steriotype heroin addict, what about entire work places where everyone is on cocaine? I have friends in the financial sector and their dealers are their manager at work! they do it in the office and they meet their targets then they all go out after work and do some more.

Drug users don't all look the same, they're not all scraping round the streets for spare change and robbing car stereos to get their drugs

So yes I do think many subgroups would use the cleaner route

Yes.

Drugs do such awful damage to body and in case of the brain it happens very quickly, why on earth would we legalise them ?

Drugs do those things anyway
people still take them
drugs being illegal isn't stopping people from taking them
it is lining the pockets of people trafficers and abusers though

I don't know the answer, but drugs being illegal doesn't mean people don't take 'em. It does mean that they're funding terrorists and people trafficers and gangsters though

its like the abortion referendum going on over in Ireland right now, whether you agree or disagree with abortions in general, the fact that they're illegal in ireland hasn't meant that people don't have them!

Would prefer cannabis be used at football matches and alcohol banned. Pre 1970 heroin was prescribed for addicts, mainly jazz musicians, artists etc, then the UK got the wonderful idea to emulate the American model of prohibition always with the pressure of giving up, the illegal market cuts it with many substances damaging to our bodies and runners are on many city corners poised to supply. Past research revealed with clean heroin our body system stays relatively healthy for many years of use and the user continues to work but using alcohol the damage is to every body system, especially to women our toleration is far lower, it is very sad to nurse a 32 year old woman with brain damage from alcohol. Would prefer that drugs are brought under regulation, laws designed for purity and strength and frameworks to protect minors. Cheltenham used to have quite a drug problem, when I expressed surprise was informed that the rich gentry would come for the weekend, their dealers would travel down too and what they had left over was distributed to any locals. A probation officer told me that it is often who your parents are that determine sentences, think about it.
interested.

Cigarettes have not been 'outlawed', it's perfectly legal to buy them and smoke them (although places where one can do so are limited). I don't see how there can be any comparison with heroin.

There's a market for smuggled ciarettes simply because they're so expensive to buy leally in this country.

The thing is legalising drugs will NOT take them off the streets, cigarettes are legal but it doesn't stop people bringing in hundreds of thousands of illegal cigs from overseas and many particularly east Europe are not regulated in the same way as ours and when tested carry even more cxxx

Can you really see your local drug addicts queuing at their pharmacy when the chap down the road will bring it to your door and they will be stronger and still cut with all sorts but give you a better hit These people are not thinking logically or they wouldn't be on them in the first place, they are not 'mainstream,follow the rules' people they will still go underground to get them off 'their own'

Drugs do such awful damage to body and in case of the brain it happens very quickly, why on earth would we legalise them ? we have all but outlawed cigs, we would be idiots to allow heroin. Nobody jumps on people in the streets an injects them with heroin, viduals choose to use it

Rubylady I did not mean any offence to anyone who has lived or been raised on a council estate, and I am sorry if I offended, but that was not my point. My point was that many people hide their heads in the sand, and think that drugs and addiction only happen to other people, people out of their social circle. As we all know too well, drug addiction is no respecter of class/group/income as the high profile cases such as Jamie Blandford illustrate. The difference is that Blandford, as a person of immense wealth, was obviously able to purchase good quality drugs which did not kill him.

I don't like any drug including alcohol and tobacco but I know that there will always be some people who will use them even though all the evidence points to them being incredibly damaging to the human body. Legalised alcohol and tobacco means that those who use casually or are addicted are guaranteed to get pure goods. Both drugs have to meet stringent manufacturing standards.

The illegal drugs are not only addictive but are cut with who knows what in order to increase the amount of product that can be sold on the streets. The user has no idea of the quality or what other substance they may be inhaling/injecting.

Due to them being illegal drugs are a very lucrative business which, of course, attracts criminals who are willing to use any method to maintain their cash cow. The police are fighting a losing battle as, if they break one gang, there will always be another waiting to take over.

I think we should legalise drugs but only make them available at a pharmacy (I think tobacco should only be available there too). People will still be able to access it but they would have to make an extra effort and be up front with a pharmacist about what they're buying. Addicts will still be able to get their fix in a much safer environment. Social users may be put off by the fact they have be open about what they're buying but if they're not at least both they and the addicts will be buying regulated products.

Over ten years ago I went on a drugs course. The police talking took the stand of legalisation then .He said that it is possible to live on clean heroin and hold down a job. It is the awful cutting with other substances that make people so ill. Also the whole drug train is so violent and exploitative from farmers right up to the dealers.
However I am still fearful of legalisation as we do not know where it will lead. But nothing is working now except for ruined lives and rich thugs/ gangsters.

I m with you Luckylegs completely, the biggest drug of all, alcohol, is legal doesn't stop A&E being totally overrun with drink laden people taking over especially at weekend I m not suggesting banning alcohol but I think there needs to be stronger rules around selling, allowing and treatment and constant education

Absolutely agree how the hell do prisons and school end up with them in that definitely needs tackling

Education of adults, parents as well as children Remember children know more about drugs than we do

Completely disagree with legalising drugs. To say it's legal is to sanction it, what double standard messaging is that. Drugs kill, the majority do not take them, being aware of the dangers.more sympathy and help is required for those with mental health issues and severe pain. We are back tontgecsamecdilemma, not enough people out there to help. To be open with our children and have discussions so they are aware of any danger is paramount, but there are a lot of homes out there, you could be living in a mansion, where this doesn't happen. How are drugs getting in prisons, tackle that. Tackle the school with a none tolerance policy, if someone is found with it they should go on a drugs programme. I would have zero tolerance and maximum help and support.
Look what's happened with Gambling, advertised on TV as harmless fun, it is one of

the biggest addictions these days and more difficult to get away from than drugs,
families destroyed because of it.
Legalising anything just gives the green light to proceed.
You can have a family where the rest of them are find but one child will go on to drugs, gambling or thieving a lot depends with who they mix with, but to give the OK that these things are ok is in my opinion so wrong.

I agree with the suggestion that drugs should be legalised, tax and sold in outlets approved by the authorities.
I agree with those who say people don't avoid drugs because they're illegal. Drugs of every type are easily available in our schools, colleges and universities as well as in our local pubs. Many young people try various drugs but don't become addicted.
Taxes raised from the sale of various drugs should be put into treatment services which are being decimated by the 'austerity' approach of our government. Very short sighted and not cost effective as an approach to addiction and mental/physical health.

ruby that term "sink" was used a lot about schools too. I have experience of different areas of council homes some of which were very desirable and others were not. Mu husband lived with his family on the top floor of a tower block. Sadly many councils created 'sink' estates by choosing to move families they considered 'problems' into one area..hence the local schools being known as 'sink' schools ie the ones where kids whose parents had not completed applications (for various reasons) or who had horrendous family difficulties to cope with often ended up. An unpleasant phrase but I hope nobody was meaning everyone living or raised in council properties are not respectable and decent folk.

Gill Sink estates? Is that council estates? Where I brought up my two children, as a single parent, who have gone on to University and my daughter is now in a well paid Manager's position? Please don't tar everyone with the same brush unless you have been there yourself. There are some lovely people on council estates, willing to help, looking out for each other, kind, friendly people. Believe it or not, not every council estate tenant is on drugs or alcohol. Most are proud, respectable, hard working people.