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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 26-Oct-16 15:32:28

The great Halloween debate: ghostly or ghastly?

It's no secret that a lot of we Brits don't quite know what to make of Halloween - in stark contrast to our American cousins and their colourful annual celebrations. We hear from two bloggers on opposite sides of the pond - and opposite sides of the Halloween argument.

First up is British blogger and author, Christine Human, who is firmly ensconced in the anti-Halloween camp...

Christine Human

Halloween: ghastly, not ghostly

Posted on: Wed 26-Oct-16 15:32:28

(71 comments )

Lead photo

Halloween - a bit of fun, or commercialised nonsense?

The grandchildren call, hauling in impossibly big pumpkins, and meet the same glazed eyes that my children saw when Halloween was mentioned - I try not to purse my lips. It's a grandad job, carving pumpkins, so they go straight through to the garden and I do enjoy watching them scooping out the contents, chatting away. I provide sausages in bread rolls and squash. I find the tea lights ready to tuck inside. The discarded innards hit the food recycling immediately.

Even Mary Berry cannot persuade me to make pumpkin pie.

I don't know of any other occasion that provokes such a reaction - it's definitely a 'love it or hate it' occasion - and I hate it. Every supermarket shelf turns orange, or so it seems, and those giant online retailers keep trying to persuade me to buy Halloween outfits, even producing a range for pets – well really!

I believe its roots lie in the idea that the spirits of the dead take to wandering about looking for bodies to inhabit and that the living put on scary costumes and make loud noises to stop them. I don’t care – I don’t like it. I know it's big in America and I don't care – so is campaigning for presidency and look where that's leading them. I fully expect Donald to appear in pumpkin costume and Hillary, claws out, as a hissing sleek, black cat.

31 October, it's lockdown night in our household, and the warm welcome usually offered to callers is subject to a twelve-hour curfew. Wartime rules apply -
"put that light out".


31 October, it’s lockdown night in our household, and the warm welcome usually offered to callers is subject to a twelve-hour curfew. Wartime rules apply - "put that light out". A quick trip to the front garden to padlock the gate, flick off the security light, and double-check for reckless illumination from within. Hastily recruited triple A batteries achieve undeserved status sitting alongside precious ornaments, the naked shell of the bell exposed confirming its demise. The large brass knocker on the front door swaddled with a duster and secured with brown tape. The insipid yellow streetlights interrupted by frigid swaying branches cast spooky shadows on the walls, the only sound a tomcat howling.

Satisfied, we retreat to the back of the house, and settle down in front of the gas fire, put subtitles on the TV to ensure no indiscreet leakage which may indicate occupancy.

My neighbour's house will receive all the attention, their windows packed with silhouettes of black cats with hunched backs, a glaring full moon, witches on broomsticks, skeletons and impossibly big plastic spiders with black hairy legs dangling from lintels. They are prepared to have hoards of over-excited children playing trick or treat and will willingly administer an overdose of sickly sweets from large orange supermarket buckets.

One smirking group who dared to mention 'trick' had eggs dropped on them from a bedroom window one year. Retaliation resulted in them having flour bombs hurled at them from the house. From the ensuing laughter I suppose they all had fun.

Meanwhile I am tucked away in subdued lighting, hearing every little crunch and clank, hoping that tonight I don't need to call an ambulance.

You can read more from Christine over on her blog, A Dangerous Age.

By Christine Human

Twitter: @adangerousage

thatbags Mon 31-Oct-16 22:47:18

The fading traditions of ancient Celts don't bother me. I mean, I don't think it's necessarily a big deal if old traditions die out. They are of historical interest, of course, but what percentage of people who take part in modern Hallowe'en activities have even a tiny inkling about the history and what Samhain meant to the Celts?

It's not tradition that's being celebrated now, but rampant commercialism.

Penstemmon Mon 31-Oct-16 22:46:16

Actually thinking about it is is not that baffling that people dress up. The jack o lanterns may have been to keep away, or light the way for, spirits. People make themselves appear 'scary' for a similar reason. Except now fewer people know the underpinning of the 'celebrations'!

thatbags Mon 31-Oct-16 22:43:43

Hmm. Been reading about the Celtic Samhain. The interpretation I read makes sense and the Celtic beliefs seem reasonable for those times.

The adoption and warping to its own ends of Samhain by Christianity is what doesn't make sense to me but I guess I now understand why I don't 'get' the modern takes.

I shall continue to not take part.

Nelliemoser Mon 31-Oct-16 22:43:30

There are not many children in our close now. All the houses were built around 1988. Most of the children have all grown up and flown the nest and us parents are still there, not quite old enough for the retirement bungalow.
We had the two lovely little boys from next door come round and I was suitably scared by their costumes.

Penstemmon Mon 31-Oct-16 22:42:25

Halloween might have zero appeal to many people in its current presentation but, as I am sure you already know, it has roots in various ancient beliefs and customs. Whilst Halloween was the context of this thread I intended to post to refer to broader range of customs/traditions that are fading. I probably was not clear enough.

thatbags Mon 31-Oct-16 22:35:10

Why is there an assumption that everyone would want to 'celebrate' Hallowe'en? It has zero appeal to me, possibly because I just don't get it. At all. What on earth is it supposed to be about?

All hallows' evening. The evening before All Saints' Day. And people dress up as freaks and zombies.

Baffling!

<heads wiki-wards in search of enlightenment>

Penstemmon Mon 31-Oct-16 22:06:18

I do think it is sad that many traditions that have been around in many areas of the country for many many years fade away or become overly commercialised. Many people complain that e.g. "England is losing its identity" but generally people do not maintain the events/traditions that are part of history/ culture of this nation. Whilst I am not a nationalist in a political sense I do believe it is good to preserve customs and practices & traditional music, song and food to maintain a sense of identity.

I think that as USA is a 'new' country ( First Americans.. I know!) many festivities that they have are not as religiously based so are not as divisive e.g. Thanksgiving / Halloween amd all communities can celebrate them equally.

Charleygirl Mon 31-Oct-16 22:00:28

Ann may I visit tomorrow please?

annsixty Mon 31-Oct-16 21:58:52

Not a single child tonight. Now someone has £5:50s worth of mini choc bars to eat. What a hardship.

Charleygirl Mon 31-Oct-16 21:47:52

I knew that some of the local children wanted to visit my house. I said I was going out (I was not) and one decided I was going to a Halloween party. I did not disabuse him of that idea.

After I cooked my supper I sat watching TV with one light on. I know, I am a miserable old git.

When I first came to England in 1966 from Scotland I had never heard of trick or treating. As a child, I was used to guising in Scotland. To earn sweets, we had to sing and/or dance. We were invited into each house but we knew everybody very well.

We only visited people who knew us and it was not begging.

Elrel Mon 31-Oct-16 21:42:25

Nana&G - glad you all had a traditional Hallowe'en!

NanaandGrampy Mon 31-Oct-16 21:35:06

We had a steady stream for an hour , and in fact our little ones recommended us as they went round lol

A good time was had by all. Indoor voices went out of the window as E numbers came in smile .

Another night of memories made X

Elrel Mon 31-Oct-16 21:34:10

Ana - sorry I didn't see your post. That must be what's happened round here. No one came to the door. Glad your GDs had fun anyway. I just saw one little boy dressed up about 3.30, on his way to a party with his DM.

Anya Mon 31-Oct-16 21:33:31

Think all the trick or treaters have finished now. The last two were huge lads, but seemed friendly enough beneath their werewolf and Frankenstein masks. It's too late now as I've finished off the remaining chocolates (don't tell mamie - low carb was completely blown out of the window)

I put all the strawberry creams to one side just for me thlgrin but Ana will understand if I say don't tell maggiemaybe

Elrel Mon 31-Oct-16 21:31:12

Greyduster - no one at all , we always get several groups, even in colder damper weather. Was it the clown thing perhaps? I must hide the goodies where I wint find them!!

Ana Mon 31-Oct-16 21:11:47

My two GDs decided they didn't want to go Trick or Treating this year because of the tales of Killer Clowns that were obviously doing the rounds at school...thlhmm

They had a great time at home bobbing for apples and dressing up anyway!

Greyduster Mon 31-Oct-16 20:48:01

Hmm! The quietist Halloween we have had since we moved here - one very small Count Dracula who stared at me with his mouth open as if I was the one with the scary costume, not him hmm; and another, older, in indeterminate garb (at best guess, a zombie). Last year we were inundated with the little b*****s! What a disappointment! Now we have a boxful of rubbishy sweets to get rid of (I have slapped DH's hands and confiscated the mini mars bars).

AlieOxon Mon 31-Oct-16 19:59:06

....so far not a peep of anybody coming round. No noises at all.
I just don't do it any more. I have had my front lights off so apparently no one is in.

rubylady Mon 31-Oct-16 19:37:44

I must admit I'm hiding this today. I've been busy tidying out paperwork and I'm now shattered so normally would have gone for a sleep. Only little hands seem to keep knocking on the door, the dog barks and wonders why I am not answering, fireworks are going off too and the whole thing is keeping me from nodding. That means I am going to be paying for it later, with getting overtired.

I would be at the door, giving out sweets but I can't keep getting up and down. Maybe they should have formed a queue and got it all over and done with at my door? grin I'm not mean, just no energy now.

Maybe the signal of having a pumpkin for welcomed trick or treaters should be more obvious and the ones not displaying could be left in peace.

Grumpy old tired woman rant over. Happy Halloween to all. thlgrin

Luckygirl Mon 31-Oct-16 19:29:22

Apple-bobbing, carving lanterns - fine. But all this grim stuff that now surrounds the day is just not on in my book. I went to a pub quiz last night and they had made a large cake that consisted of a twisted and bloodied severed leg on a piece of board painted to look like a road with Police Accident tape round it - what is that about? Am I alone in finding that grotesque and tasteless?

vampirequeen Mon 31-Oct-16 18:23:58

We keep a chair empty for any friend/family member who has passed on in case they come to visit.

rosesarered Mon 31-Oct-16 16:47:30

It's all overdone, but our grandchildren love it, we had celebrations with the young ones yesterday ( a ghoulish lunch) and this evening will be partying with the older one, and taking him trick and treating.It's a friendly family community though, and if you don't put out a lighted pumpkin, then nobody bothers you.There are no children where I live at all, so we go to their house.I shall be dressed as a pumpkin ( I have the figure for it) and DH as Count Dracula.Gooey cakes will be eaten.
I could do without Halloween, and think some of the gory displays and costumes are disturbing.

rubysong Mon 31-Oct-16 14:06:22

UK costumes etc are much more scary and gory than those in USA .
My DGC have as their costumes this year a banana and Wonderwoman, but the outfits I have seen in our local supermarket are all disturbingly horrific and I would not put a small child in any of them. Over here they are exclusively ghosts, ghouls, witches etc. but in America it is dressing up in its widest sense, just for fun, not to frighten anyone.

AlieOxon Mon 31-Oct-16 12:18:30

I don't do or support any of the American stuff.

AlieOxon Mon 31-Oct-16 12:17:34

I do like the candle idea.
I will put one for my daughter tonight.