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LucyGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

The wrong kind of refugee?

In recent years, the world has witnessed a refugee crisis that has forced more than a million men, women and children to flee the brutal violence in their own countries. Yet despite the life-threatening situations they face, these refugees (including children) have often been met with a degree of suspicion and fear in the nations they have escaped to.

Author Barbara Fox, whose own mother was evacuated from inner-city Newcastle as a child, wonders what the difference between Britain's long-ago children and today's refugees is?

Barbara Fox

The wrong kind of refugee?

Posted on: Thu 17-Nov-16 10:42:52

(999 comments )

Lead photo

Are today's refugees really any different?

When I read a headline recently about the outrage of a 'picturesque' village to which 70 'child migrants' were to be sent, I was reminded of another time in our history when places in the countryside were obliged to welcome strangers into their midst.

Back in 1940 when she was six years old, my mother, Gwenda, and her older brother, Doug, were among the hundreds of thousands of children who left their inner-city homes and were evacuated to the countryside to escape the German bombs.

Gwenda's main memory of her journey from Newcastle to the Lake District centres round the banana she was given to eat by her mother – the last she was to see for several years. A teacher ordered the children to sit on their bags, and consequently, when Gwenda came to unpack later, she found squashed banana over all her belongings.

On arrival in the pretty village of Bampton they were lined up in the church hall while the villagers came to choose who they wanted. Yes, it does seem unbelievable that that was how the evacuees were billeted to their families! You might imagine that Gwenda and Doug – clean, nicely dressed children - would have been snapped up first (they would surely be the refugees that no one would protest about today!). But actually, that was not the case. Gwenda was the youngest child there as she was tagging along with Doug and his class of nine-year-olds - their mother had insisted that the pair should not be separated. Consequently, the locals were expecting older children, and someone of Gwenda's size probably didn't look very useful in this farming community.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today?


Gwenda and Doug were the only children left when the wife of the village headmaster arrived. As the mother of two sons, she had to be persuaded to take a girl. However, she relented, and so the children went home with her. They would spend three happy years living in the schoolhouse and Gwenda would keep in touch with the couple she called 'Aunty' and 'Uncle' for the rest of their lives.

The following year, in more desperate circumstances, Bampton opened its doors to another influx of children, this time from the shipbuilding town of Barrow-in-Furness.

Undoubtedly thousands of lives were saved by this evacuation of the nation's children, and indeed, Gwenda and Doug's own street in Newcastle was bombed.

Britain also welcomed refugees from Europe, including thousands of Jewish children who might otherwise have perished.

Were these home-grown children that our rural communities welcomed back then really so different from the oft-maligned refugee children today? I would go so far as to say that the inner-city children who turned up in Bampton were often just as alien to their rural hosts as the foreign newcomers seem to be to the 'picturesque' village dwellers. But equally, both could teach something to the other.

Those harking back to 'when Britain was great' perhaps forget that it was also characterised by our opening our doors to those in need.

When the War Is Over by Barbara Fox, the story of Gwenda’s wartime evacuation, is published by Sphere and is available from Amazon.

By Barbara Fox

Twitter: @Gransnet

Ankers Wed 15-Feb-17 20:57:33

2nd link - no figures

Ankers Wed 15-Feb-17 20:58:21

3rd link - the statistics may be ob there, but I cant see them

MawBroon Wed 15-Feb-17 20:59:11

www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/482

No?

MawBroon Wed 15-Feb-17 21:03:34

To be a domestic Plumber the following qualifications are required:
Level 2/3 Diploma Plumbing and Heating.
Level 2/3 Diploma Installing and Maintaining Domestic Heating Systems.
Plumbing Qualifications in the UK
www.plumbing-apprenticeships.co.uk › ...

Ankers Wed 15-Feb-17 21:08:40

Thanks MawBroon. I can see the figures now.

335,000 net migration. Wow. And that is presumably merely the ones that are presumably registered.
No wonder people are complaining.

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 21:19:15

HUGE amount huh, tip of the iceberg too. Let's say that quite a lot of cultures have 4 kids, pretty explosive elements over the last say 7 years.. Mind boggling that our services are at an over whelming capacity.

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 21:22:17

Why on earth are some people still in lala land? beggars belief really, again, unless there is something in it for them? private health care (so no need to worry)? things being done cheaply (more money to spare)? disregard for the every day normal person?

grin

MawBroon Wed 15-Feb-17 21:27:31

Don't forget Ankers - there are "three kinds of lies."

Lies, damned lies and statistics

Jalima Wed 15-Feb-17 21:55:05

Perhaps we should have checked our EU plumber's certificates before we let him loose to cause chaos to do a job.
Now we have to get our usual plumber back to put it right (we couldn't get hold of him previously - too busy).

Our usual plumber isn't English though (he's Welsh) and the Ladybird book of plumbing was required reading in Year 1. grin

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 21:58:18

Don't have any of those, saak.
I just care about people who are in an appalling situation through no fault of their own.
It's an accident of birth that we were born in the UK. Why should we close the door on others?

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 22:06:48

That's very commendable and idealistic, I take my hat off to you but it's very unrealistic.

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 22:07:22

How's your situation Durhamjen?

JessM Wed 15-Feb-17 22:23:47

You don't have to have a licence of any kind to do plumbing in the UK. Lots of handy chaps do a bit of plumbing.
Gas fitting/installation is another matter. You have to be qualified because you could kill people.
Some kinds of electrical work need a registered electrician. e.g. checking and signing off new wiring.
Immigration has gone up because there is lots of work in the booming SE. Including building.
If you look at the Irish statistics you can see clearly how the "Celtic Tiger" booming economy sucked in EU immigrants, reaching a peak in 2007 and how the population dropped when boom turned to bust. This is of course the beauty of EU economy - ease of movement and short hop home when the work dries up.

www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2015/

Welshwife Wed 15-Feb-17 22:30:02

If the migrants are from the EU they will be quite legal and have the right to work. More migrants come from other regions of the world such as India and Pakistan and they need visas. I have no idea of numbers but have seen migrants from the rest of the world outnumber those from the EU. Many of the EU people have left or not come to UK as they definitely have the impression they are not welcome. This is a pity as many of them have the skills the UK needs such as medical staff, engineers, IT and electronic engineers etc.

Various businesses and places such as hospitals are already reporting shortages of staff and the fact they are unable to recruit. The UK is unable to train enough of these people to fill the vacant positions at the moment and it will be a number of years before they can. What is the country to do ? Simply to shut up shop with manufacturing where there are staff shortages and send sick people to other countries to be treated - or is it preferable to allow immigrants to fill the positions?

There are also less skilled positions where UK is unable to provide the labour required - how are we to fill these jobs and get crops picked and food packed and to the shops. The U.K. Haulage businesses are far fewer than there used to be. This was caused by taxes - however the gap in the middle where capacity is needed to get imports of food etc is filled by EU haulage companies.

Maybe the people here who are so against these immigrants can tell us how to overcome these problems if we do not allow migration. It is no good to just say we should train our own people - I agree we should train more people - but it will take years to filter into the system. I think that illegal migration is far less than is imagined - the great majority of migrants are working and give a net benefit to the UK tax system.

durhamjen Wed 15-Feb-17 22:34:35

theconversation.com/there-is-space-for-lone-refugee-children-in-britain-but-the-government-isnt-trying-to-find-it-72818

stillaliveandkicking Wed 15-Feb-17 22:38:09

No one is saying immigration is a bad thing, what mass immigration has done is devalued anything that english workers have had to strive for for many years, it has made the working wage so low that no one that is english can actually sustain. People in this country can no longer buy a home. Immigrants either live on the job or live many to a room and send money home to buy that property to live comfortable lives in a far cheaper economy. I don't ever blame them but it has got to stop.

durhamjen Thu 16-Feb-17 00:13:08

Both my daughters in law are immigrants. I don't think either of them have ever lived as you suggest. Not all immigrants are the same.
The living wage is to do with the UK government. It is nothing to do with immigration. Anyone who is paying anyone less than the living wage could and should be prosecuted.

JessM Thu 16-Feb-17 07:18:45

Stillalive that is a most astonishing "blame the immigrants" post.
There has been a decline in union membership by British workers which is probably because UK workers became complacent about their rights under EU law. They thought the battles had been won. And arguably unions did not have a great image maybe. Many large and small employers refuse to recognise unions (as in not willing to negotiate with them) and heavily discourage their workers from joining them.
Many large employers have embraced zero hours contracts etc. And if you talk to people who work in big supermarkets you often find that they are not being offered more than 30 hours a week. (The employers find it more flexible I think).
We also have a minimum wage, set by the government. And set it rather low. It is not enough for someone to live on.
A study by the Bank of England (no less) found that immigration was responsible for a small effect on salaries of lower paid workers. This is very small.

www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/how-small-small-impact-immigration-uk-wages#.WKVNU7GcZ-U
The care sector in southern England might as well pack up and go home without immigrant labour. As would the hospitality industry. And the UK software industry would be crippled. Not to mention the NHS.
The cost of housing is high because successive governments have had terrible housing policies. Going right back to Thatcher's right to buy.
It's supply and demand - not enough houses, the price inevitably rises.
Of course Immigrants in the SE must live in crowded conditions. But if they all went home there would not be a queue of locals applying for their jobs.
In parts of the country where there are few jobs there are very few immigrants at all. They move to work. They are not filling jobs in areas of high unemployment.

grannypiper Thu 16-Feb-17 07:31:44

durhamjen genuine question, how many refugees(not migrants) do you think we should house ?

Ankers Thu 16-Feb-17 11:37:31

I have been waiting for dj to answer the grannypiper post, but now dont think she will.

I am going to attempt to answer some of the above points.

MawBroon - you have a point about statistics.
But the government have no idea about the amount of illegal immigrants, and people are reporting what they see, so that is all we have to go on.

JessM - has been said to you many times before, by many posters, no-one says that there should be no immigrants. And yet you persist and persist and persist and persist and persist. And persist and persist.....and persist[see how boring it is] with that one.

The rest of your post. How do you know how many illegal immigrants there are. You do not. And the government is scared to put an estimate on it.

Ankers Thu 16-Feb-17 11:41:35

Welshwife - illegal immigrants is not the answer. They cannot have a NI number.

Taken from Gov.uk
Who uses your National Insurance number

These organisations need to know what your number is:

HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC)
your employer
the Department for Work and Pensions (which includes Jobcentre Plus and the Pension, Disability and Carers Service), if you claim state benefits, or in Northern Ireland the Department for Social Development
your local council, if you claim Housing Benefit, or the Northern Ireland Housing Executive
Electoral Registration Officers (to check your identity when you register to vote)
the Student Loan Company, if you apply for a student loan
your Individual Savings Account (ISA) provider, if you open an ISA
your pension provider if you have a personal or stakeholder pension

To prevent identity fraud, keep your National Insurance number safe. Don’t share it with anyone who doesn’t need it.

And Welshwife, same point to you.
No-oneand I repeat no-one says that there should be no migration. Whereever does anybody whatsoever get that idea from?

Ankers Thu 16-Feb-17 11:42:38

Me-thinks actually, that posters already know this. Dont they? If not, write it down somewhere. In capitals!

Ankers Thu 16-Feb-17 11:43:33

You don't have to have a licence of any kind to do plumbing in the UK. Lots of handy chaps do a bit of plumbing.

I thought I was right!
Notladybird at all!

MawBroon Thu 16-Feb-17 12:07:23

Ankers NUMBER of anything which is plural, not AMOUNT.
It's like less and fewer.
Or is that what you would call "pedantics" grin

Ankers Thu 16-Feb-17 12:09:53

yep! grin

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