Remembrance Sunday

Oreo

midgey

If we hadn’t got long lenses on cameras none of this would have been noticed.

So?

Ok so what we don’t see can’t cause harm?

I completely agree with you. I am British, Scottish and served in the WRAF. My Dad, husbands (first and second), brother and son all served in the Forces and my Dad’s brother, my Uncle David, whom I never knew, lost his life at just seventeen when his ship HMS Wild Swan was dive bombed in 1942. I always feel very moved by the Albert Hall Remembrance Service and this one was exceptionally good. I thought the Cenotaph Service was excellent too, but like you, am disgusted at this politician and embarrassed that he is a fellow Scot.

midgey

If we hadn’t got long lenses on cameras none of this would have been noticed.

So?

Those there would certainly have noticed.

If we hadn’t got long lenses on cameras none of this would have been noticed.

RosiesMaw2

Something to think about

At The Cenotaph
I saw the Prince of Darkness, with his Staff,
Standing bare-headed by the Cenotaph:
Unostentatious and respectful, there
He stood, and offered up the following prayer.
'Make them forget, O Lord, what this Memorial
Means; their discredited ideas revive;
Breed new belief that War is purgatorial
Proof of the pride and power of being alive;
Men's biologic urge to readjust
The Map of Europe, Lord of Hosts, increase;
Lift up their hearts in large destructive lust;
And crown their heads with blind vindictive Peace.'
The Prince of Darkness to the Cenotaph
Bowed. As he walked away I heard him laugh.

Siegfried Sassoon

Thank you for posting this.

Allira can you give me any counter arguments? Is it too simple?

ronib

A friend and I were discussing Remembrance Day yesterday and she was of the opinion that we were glorifying war and her sympathies lay with all the very young men mostly who lost their lives far too soon.
What is aggrieving me is the continued loss of young lives wherever the conflict. Sometimes I wonder if this is the way population growth is controlled? It feels so very wrong.

Yes, unfortunately there are people who have the same simplistic, erroneous view as your friend.
It is very sad.

I’m watching the commemorations on television now.

To me SF appeared to be making a point. I’m not sure that Rememberance Day is the time to make a point, but he did, and there it is. Perhaps the SNP could send someone else next year, who doesn’t feel the need to make a point. Rememberance isn’t about individuals, it’s about those who gave their service in many wars. Service men and women have to swear allegiance to the crown, note not to the government of the day, but along with many other professions, such as police and judges and King’s Counsel they swear their allegiance to the king and all his successors. Some of these people maybe republicans but they still swear their allegiance because they believe in the office and the role they are going to play. In fact, as mentioned, SF will have had to do this in order to take his seat in Parliament. Why did he not make a stand then?

With regard to the members of the royal family wearing military uniforms of high rank, I thought we all understood that they are simply figureheads for those organisations. I thought we all knew and understood that, but maybe not. They are laying wreaths on behalf of the nation and the organisations whose uniforms they wear. Like it or not, Charles is our figurehead. We would have to have a figurehead even if we were a Republic. We can’t lay a wreath at the Cenotaph and so he does it for us. We can wear a poppy, or lay a weath, or place a cross, at a local Cenotaph. I’ve stuck my poppy in my window because the new recyclable ones aren’t easy to pin.

A friend and I were discussing Remembrance Day yesterday and she was of the opinion that we were glorifying war and her sympathies lay with all the very young men mostly who lost their lives far too soon.
What is aggrieving me is the continued loss of young lives wherever the conflict. Sometimes I wonder if this is the way population growth is controlled? It feels so very wrong.

Lest we forget:

It is Remembrance Day today.

Allira

It was fine for Flynn to swear the Oath of Allegiance when it suited him:

Members of both Houses of Parliament are required by law to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown.

MPs cannot take their seat, speak in debates, vote or receive a salary until taking the oath or affirmation. They could also be fined £500 and have their seat declared vacant “as if they were dead” if they attempted to do so.

And yet a number of MP have made a 'statement' of their own while taking the oath - not all of them Scottish, by the way.

OldFrill

It's not often. I'm on the side of the SNP but the so called Christian sisterhood on this thread is vile. Christianity does not own Remembrance. Nearly half of Scotland wants independence and the way some are demanding they sing hymns and GSTK it's no wonder. How DARE anyone demand that someone compromise their principles, be hypocritical and sing songs because it confirms to their narrow minded religions view. That's Christianity is it? No wonder congregations are waning and the churches are being converted into housing (actually one near here is being converted into a mosque).
Last year and this year Stephen Flynn has been heavily criticised for standing by his principles. Show done human decency, it's Remembrance not bitchfest.
Some remarks made to me on here are incredibly incredibly hurtful.

It's not often. I'm on the side of the SNP but the so called Christian sisterhood on this thread is vile
Especially this.
Stephen Flynn was at the Cenotaph as the leader of the SNP and de facto representative of Scotland. His obvious and crass “statement” will have been totally at variance with Remembrance Sunday parades the length and breadth of Scotland. We’d have been ashamed in the Borders.
Nobody is demanding nearly half of Scotland sing hymns or GSTK or indeed confirm their narrow minded religious views Although it would not surprise me if nearly half ,”over half” or any other fraction you care to come up with, have no problem with hymns, metrical psalms or “songs” in a similar context.
As for referring to a bitchfest , it merely confirms my growing disillusion with what Gransnet seems to have become since I first joined 13 years ago, enjoying the stimulating discussion, good humour, camaraderie, wit and wisdom.
Those days are gone.

It was fine for Flynn to swear the Oath of Allegiance when it suited him:

Members of both Houses of Parliament are required by law to take an oath of allegiance to the Crown.

MPs cannot take their seat, speak in debates, vote or receive a salary until taking the oath or affirmation. They could also be fined £500 and have their seat declared vacant “as if they were dead” if they attempted to do so.

Well I suppose one could sing praises to and ask help from someone / something one does not belive in . To me it would be somewhat hypocritical.
However respect .for the fallen and those who have and are still stands

Oreo

MissInterpreted

Remembrance isn't a competition. Attending a service and singing the hymns and the national anthem and saying the prayers doesn't make you any better than someone who stood there silently and paying their respects in their own way. It's not a competition.

Is there actually anyone who understands the difference between a private individual and a political leader representing the Scottish people at the Cenotaph service?
Anyone?

Many of us, I think Oreo.

There is a time and a place for personal political beliefs, but this was neither for a representative of all the Scottish people.

Are his constituents bothered? Are the Scottish people bothered? Would some people be getting their knickers in such a twist about this if he was of a different religious persuasion, for example - or is it just a convenient excuse to have a go at the Scots? Like I say, Remembrance isn't a competition. In my opinion, he conducted himself with dignity and that's all that matters. It's about remembering and paying respects to those who served and those who paid the ultimate sacrifice.

You need to be religious to join in with God Save The King and anything else at the Cenotaph, why I never knew that!

Yes, he was representing the Scottish people as a political leader not a religious one.

Well you didn’t seem to understand or you wouldn’t have commented in the way you did.

Patronising, much?

MissInterpreted

Remembrance isn't a competition. Attending a service and singing the hymns and the national anthem and saying the prayers doesn't make you any better than someone who stood there silently and paying their respects in their own way. It's not a competition.

Is there actually anyone who understands the difference between a private individual and a political leader representing the Scottish people at the Cenotaph service?
Anyone?

Childish behaviour in the extreme.

Remembrance isn't a competition. Attending a service and singing the hymns and the national anthem and saying the prayers doesn't make you any better than someone who stood there silently and paying their respects in their own way. It's not a competition.