And here's one you stroked last year........

Hi NewGranLin, I agree Farmers could grow crops, but with our climate changes the crops they grow are usually the ones that need the less water, ie biomass, or oilseed rape, if they rely on anything else a bad year could mean bankruptcy take for instance the daffodil growers this year, we had warm weather too early for the scottish growers, their crops flowered too soon and they lost the whole lot. The 'Factory' farmers cater for the big super markets, who drive the prices down so low the only way the farmer can make a living is to Factory farm. so perhaps the answer is to buy from a local farmer who will let you see the way his/her animals are treated, there are more and more of these around now adays, also a lot of the small butchers only buy from local farmers so they can sell their meat knowing that the animal it came from did have a good life first.

Amber our canine teeth are not sufficiently developed to allow us to tear our prey apart, nor do we tend to eat raw flesh. If we were natural carnivores we would not have to cook our meat before we eat it. Herbivores also have canine teeth but what they share with us is large molars to grind their food. Chimps have enormous canine teeth but their diet is 95% vegan, an addition to which they eat mostly termites.

harrigran I would be glad if some animals were not around to be tortured for our pleasure.

The moral argument has been stated by those far better than me:

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
"To my mind, the life of a lamb is no less precious than that of a human being." (Mahatma Gandhi)

And be glad you have a choice. Millions of people have no choice.

There is no solid scientific evidence that not eating meat is 'healthier' than eating it. If people have emotional or political or any other kind of reason for restricting their diets, that's fine by me, but I don't like constantly being told that this or that is healthier. All that is bullshit. Food is food from elephant meat to grashoppers and grass. Choose what you eat and leave everyone else to choose what they eat too is my philosophy.

A piece of meat bears no resemblance to the animal it came from. Some animals wouldn't be around without farming.

Amber, the farmers could grow crops instead and we would all be healthier for it and the environment would benefit - it takes gallons of water to produce just one steak . The sad truth is that nowadays most meat is factory farmed and the animals rarely, if ever, see the light of day. They have horrible lives and even more horrible deaths. This includes dairy cattle whose male calves are killed at a few days old or stuck in a crate for veal.

I like being the highest rank in the food chain.

Where would we be if no one ate meat? no farmers are going to keep animals just to be looked at! they would have to sell up to the builders or turn their farms over to arable crops, but with the water shortages we have at the moment, there is not much choice, so it would mean, no green fields, and no hedgerows just houses, industrial estates and fields of oilseed rape, or biomass crops. I come from a farming family, both my brother and sister have farms, both of them have their animals killed at a local abatoir, then sell the meat to their long waiting list of customers, if the animals have had a good life, the lambs (and piglets and calves)are grown slowly I can see nothing wrong with eating meat after all thats why we have canine teeth

Do herd animals mind being huddled together? I thought they liked it and did it naturally sometimes, e.g. for safety or warmth (think emperor penguins in Antarctica). The old style stone-dyke sheep pens used this natural behaviour in their design to protect farm sheep from the worst of the winter weather. I think packing sheep into a lorry is only different in that they are not on solid earth. The emotional response to this is purely human, and we feel it only because we know (or think we know) that they are going to the slaughter house.

It is a safe way to move them too as they can't fall over. They prop each other up.

Of course, I agree with everyone else who thinks that any actual cruel practice or practices where the animals are clearly not well looked after (too long in a lorry, for instance) are not right.

We had lamb for dinner yesterday - boned, rolled shoulder studded with garlic, rosemary and anchovies - delicious!

When I was young we lived next door to a farm and I used to play with the farmer's grandchildren on and around the haystacks (probably an 'elf and safety issue today!). One year, the farmer had reared an orphan lamb, we named him Joseph, who followed us everywhere, even to the sweet shop! He eventually died after drinking the disinfectant intended for cleaning the milking parlour.

I agree with you , Kiwibird - animals should still be treated humanely even when they are being kept purely for food.

Something I hate when driving along is passing a sheep truck literally stuffed with sheep, looking as though they've been packed in any old way. Noses sticking out of the bars, backsides, and, if I look, eyes looking my way. Soppy sounding I know, and yes I could never ever be a farmer. My meat consumption has decreased to almost nothing, and to be honest, this is more from a health point of view (colitis). I understand the food chain and understand how vital sheep are to New Zealand's economy (where I live) but those sheep trucks? Maybe I'm too soft-hearted.

At this time of year in Rome and the surrounding area, lamb known as Abbacchio is a popular dish. It is milk only fed lamb of only 20 to 30 days old. It is light coloued meat with a very delicate flavour, and very tender, with no fat ~ delicious.

Aurelia

I hate the live transportation of horses to Europe more than anything else. My partner told me of a horse lorry that went past him last year [empty] and the very thought of it made my blood run cold. I have every respect for people like phoenix who looked after their animals right through to their death, and your grandfather, too nightowl.

Anagram my grandfather was a farmer and even though I'm a vegetarian I had a lot of respect for his way of life. He cared for his animals and looked after them like pets, but he also had the honesty to kill and butcher them himself. One of his deeply held beliefs was 'you don't eat babbies' and he would never touch veal, nor would he have been too impressed by the present habit of eating lamb - it was mutton in his day. I would never choose to eat meat under any circumstances but I do respect farmers like my grandfather who had integrity. What I cannot bear is today's factory farming and attitudes to animals.

We have chickens ,unfortunatley I named them and discovered they had personalities,we had a more cockerels than where needed,all was fine until it came to eating them,it was like eating my children,when we moved we made sure they went to good foster homes....we have some more,note to self DO NOT get involved let OH deal with them..

If you're brought up on a farm, you have a different attitude - it's a way of life and their livelihood. No room for sentiment in farming!

A few years ago, we rented a holiday cottage on a farm in N.Wales. Their 14 year old daughter had been given 2 lambs to rear by her parents, and we loved watching them follow her everywhere. I asked her what happened when they grew bigger, if they`d go back with the other sheep, and she said " No, the butcher in the village is buying them off me, so I can put the money towards my school holiday trip." It would have broken my heart to get to know them like that, and then sell them for slaughter.

My daughter's piglets live the life of Riley, with a big pen and access to their own little wood for foraging (lots of land in New Zealand). When her first pig was ready, the butcher from the next block brought his trailer and my daughter lured it up the ramp with plums. He drove it about 100 yards to his slaughterhouse and they had the joints within a day.

I'm also glad to be a vegetarian. And no, I don't use leather, sheepskin, feathers or down or any other animal products that involve their death. And forgive me for pointing out the flaw in the title but lamb is actually meat from an animal under a year old, so the lambs you are stroking now will be ready for the table in about 12 weeks time.

The following article contains graphic descriptions of filming that took place in slaughterhouses and is certainly food for thought (pardon the pun)

www.animalaid.org.uk/images/pdf/MarkGold.pdf

I have no problem with this. Let's face it, the lambs wouldn't be there if no one wanted to eat them! I don't eat a great deal of red meat, but could never be a veggie!

phoenix when we eventually get into our house our neighbour is going to let us have four of his ewes to start us off, I cant wait.

petallus , do you wear leather, i.e. shoes etc.

So say I, petallus!

I'm glad I'm a vegetarian!