The Golliwog

I still don't understand why the golliwog is seen as a negative caricature. I daresay there were some ugly ones (there are ugly white dolls too) but most of them were not ugly. If it is about the whites of eyes and thick lips, then I think too much fuss is being made. The whites of eyes do show up brighter against dark skin and thicker lips are a common feature of some 'African' faces. People pay money and have operations to have their lips thickened nowadays!!!

I read the article whose link whenim gave and noted the comments about slavery. Slavery is bad. We're all agreed about that. The slave trade by white colonists of the Americas was appalling. We're all agreed about that.

However, slavery existed in Africa, between Africans, before that awful colonial slave trading began and, whatsmore, it still does, so it is not just "white supremacists god rot their souls" who indulged in slave trading back then, and don't forget it was "white supremacists god rot their souls" who stopped the colonial slave trade too. Slavery still exists where 'whites' have not managed to stamp it out.

So really I think the golliwog wars are about festering resentment rather than any real current problem. I'm not saying there aren't any current problems between people of different skin colour, but I don't believe the existence of golly dolls is one of them. That said, in fact I have clearly been as PC as could be desired because, as I said earlier, eleven year old DD doesn't even know what a golliwog is.

Yes, Petallus I was referring to the school I attended as a child and I'm certain that that early exposure to racism shaped my future consciousness of it. My first letter to the press was a rebuttal of a correspondent's racist rant; I was just sixteen at the time and living with my (elderly, retired) grandparents and in those days the newspapers published full names and addresses. Nothing could have prepared me for the threats and sheer vitriol that poured out of the anonymous letters I received in response. My poor grandparents were terrified that their home was going to be burnt down or that I really would have acid thrown in my face - as had been threatened.

Anagram I have tried to explain why gollys are considered racist - I explained yesterday about the fact that it is a negative caricature of black people, bear in mind that no positive images were available. Your having a golly in the past down't make you racist just innocent . In the past black people were considered inferior to white people [other races too for a matter of fact]. For example the making of films. Before the middle of the 1950s if a black person appeared it was usually as a servant,farmhand or something else menial. The only way a black person could be considered a step up from this was for the actor to depicted as a minster. In comedy films the black man would be an eye rolling stupid fool. With the exception of a few films this was the norm. It wasn't until actors like Sidney Poitier, who refused to appear like this, fought for a better role to appear in a positive light. I hope this helps. It's obvious from all the threads that we are a diverse group of grnadparents and we don't all agree with each other. That's call freedom.

I applaud anyone person or community that reclaims offensive words in order to take the power and derogatory meaning out of them, but some words may not make that transition. The thought of 'mong' being reclaimed by groups of people with learning disabilities makes me shudder, and I am dounbtful that reclaiming the word 'wog' would be as successful as how 'queer' was reclaimed by gay activists, but anything that takes a step in the right direction is fine with me.

grannyactivist do you mean the school you went to as a child? Attitudes were pretty awful in those days I agree.

I've always thought it was a sort of inverted racism to tactfully not mention that a person is black. What's wrong with being black? Someone mentioned earlier that black people are beginning to reclaim the word 'wog' and that seems a step in the right direction to me.

My youngest GD is fascinated with Tchoupi, a very strange looking creature. There is no knowing what children will find attractive.
Last week while we were shopping GD looked in a toy shop window and saw a doll " oh,what an ugly doll it looks like a monkey " there was a very large golliwog next to the doll but no comment was made about it.

At my junior school there was one black girl and one girl of mixed heritage - they suffered daily from racist name-calling and often either became tearful or (one of the girls in particular) ended up fighting. The girls were frequently called 'wogs' or 'golliwogs' - and it was definitely meant as a racist taunt. I never forgot those incidents and how those girls were blamed for responding or retaliating 'negatively'.

Greatnan wise words. I too agree with Dorset, I thought we'd seen the end of the wretched things!
Mind you, I think Barbies are awful too. Googled Barbie and learnt some interesting things, but this bit made me giggle:
Members of the Barbie Liberation Organization secretly modified Barbies by implanting voice boxes from G.I.Joe dolls and returning them to the stores!

Nite, nite Bags

Calling anybody anything in a derogatory way is offensive, I agree. Will look at the article tomorrow. Becoming brain dead tonight. G'night all.

I think that article had a slightly hysterical tone.

Little Black Sambo was one of my favourite childhood books - and I believe it has now been cleared of 'racist' accusations because there was nothing derogatory in the story, and the title was just a description of the boy and his name.

As I said before, I understand Dorsetpennt's concerns, and she has said and done what she felt to be necessary accordingly.

I think this article gives a good explanation of why golliwogs are symbols of racism. I never had one as a child, but there was a golliwog character in Noddy books - this character was portrayed negatively. I can understand children becoming fond of their golliwogs, but they would not understand the history of this toy, in the same way southern American white children loved the black slaves who looked after them for their parents, but did not understand slavery.

www.obv.org.uk/news-blogs/why-golliwog-wars-are-important

I am with Dorset completely. If black people find them offensive, if black children were called 'golliwog' in a derogatory manner, then they are offensive. I don't care how much you all enjoyed playing with them - you knew no better. My parents (loony lefties to the core, in fact, members of the communist party in the 1930's) would not have one in the house.

I'm sorry Dorsetpennt has gone, because to my mind Bags did ask for clarification as to why gollies are considered offensive. I'm not sure what other specific questions could have been asked of her friend.

Or Asian or American or European ones, for that matter.

Next time you see her please ask what is offensive about gollies. Nobody has told me what it is that is objected to yet. Are some black people saying it is wrong in principle to do caricatures in the form of dolls? In which case please could somebody explain about African tribal masks.

what? Campaign - this is a forum and I was submitting a subject for discussion. Riverwalk has submitted a very good thread on this subject and perhaps explained it better then I have - I am just going to end this by saying, having a golly in the past doesn't make you racist. Bags I know it is difficult and I am only making these comments from conversations I have had with black friends regarding subjects like the black and white minstrels and gollywogs. Hard for a lot of white people to understand I daresay. Johanna love some of your quips BTW. Goodnight ladies , my friend was very disappointed that none of you could ask her any questions - as you probably guessed she is black.

Dorsetpennt, yes, I would stand up for something I thought was wrong, if the cause was for a group, say, which couldn't do it for themselves, such as children or people with learning difficulties, or animals. I would support other causes I believed in if those affected wanted my support. I wouldn't presume to start a campaign on behalf of a group of people just because I, personally, felt offence had or might have been caused.

By the way, eleven year old DD doesn't know what a golliwog is. I asked her. She said no. She didn't ask me any questions.

She has some Japanese caricature dolls.

Nobody looks like Barbie either, black or white. Why is it OK to have an unpleasant doll caricature of a white person but not to have what I think is not an unpleasant doll caricature of a black person? Surely saying one is OK and the other isn't is the racist bit?

I understand that some people think gollies are offensive but I still don't really understand why. Gollies are not horrible caricatures. They are nice caricatures. That's why Roberstons the jam makers adopted the golly as a mascot.

I understand that the term wog came to be offensive. I also understand from Wiki that it has been re-adopted by some people, including black people.

Sorry, but I just don't get it. I skimmed through the Wiki history and it confirmed that yes, the golly doll is a caricature, but not a nasty one. Surely most dolls are caricatures of one sort or another?

I agree too and only last Saturday I was very surprised to see Golliwogs for sale in a local shop. I wondered if anyone who worked in the shop has voiced concerns when they were put on display and if they realised that a lot of their customers would be offended.

dorset I agree with what you are saying; although I loved my golly and my black doll I don't think we questioned racist attitudes in those days. Looking back the golly certainly represented a caricature of a black person in what now seems an unpleasant and paternalistic manner. As for my black doll, named by my mother 'Dinah' (and how stereotypical was that?) she was certainly a token and not just another doll. I don't blame my parents' generation as they did not know any different but I do think times have changed for the better and these toys no longer have a place in today's society (but maybe in our hearts, as we are after all the products of an earlier age!)

I wonder how a Medway moll would go down?

Offensive, yes. We should empathise!

Maybe Dorset is trying to say that a golliwog has a subliminal message?