Mean Girls

I think a lot of children join a gang of bullies in the hope that it will stop the gang bullying them. I supported a girl who was being bullied at grammar school and became a target myself. I knew that some of the gang were nice people really, just afraid to stand up and be counted. It happens in internet chat rooms too.
I think I would be more worried if my child was a bully than if she were being bullied. I agree that it is usually a sign of a lack of self esteem, rather than over- confidence.

I don't think that Lord of the Flies paints all children as monsters, but it intends to show that 'civilisation' is a thin veneer that can disappear rapidly if the circumstances encourage a fight for survival.

I firmly believe that no children are monsters, but all children are in certain circumstances capable of horrid behaviour and it is the role of adults to help them to learn to consider the feelings of others. When they are surrounded by adults who themselves don't consider the feelings of others, that is pretty difficult.

And we seem to be surrounded by sections of the media that encourage us to make fun of the misfortunes of others.

Article was all about US college students and whether their self esteem has increased over the years, and if so is this a good thing or not. Concluded that too much unconditional praise from parents might not be the best thing.
Nothing about bullying and meanness.
Granbunny, Lord of the Flies is a made up story. So is not evidence that "children are monsters" .

I don't think anyone bullies because they are full of confidence and self esteem. I think bullying comes from feeling bad and believing that if you can make someone else feel bad somehow you will feel better yourself.
But I have an article in a New Scientist about too much self esteem being bad for teenagers... so I will read it and report back.

children are still monsters. think lord of the flies. the trick is to spend lots of time with them - it civilises your own and gives them protection against the others.

I think you have something there, Gracesmum. The first thing which was hammered home to my DDs as they started grammar school was along the lines of "You are the best there is. There is nothing you cannot do. Let nothing get in your way", and so on. Even shampoo adverts constantly remind them that they "are worth it" (why?). They are taught to compile CVs which are actually embarrassing in their self-promotion. Self-confidence is essential and without question something really important to foster in our children, male and female, but this aggressive "me, me" attitude is new, I think, and very unattractive.

While I think girls have always been capable of very unpleasant bullying,I think one difference nowadays is that "meanness" is seen as a form of assertiveness by the younger generation and no longer condemned outright. You know "girl power" and all that. From my teaching days I remember boys as being (on the whole) more physical while girls could really put the knife in, verbally. As a teacher, I preferred aggro from boys to that from girls (because you weren't allowed to give as good as you got!)
That said, I used to face physical bullying on a daily basis at my primary school from a gang of girls from the neighbouring council estate, just because I didn't live in a council house. Not the happiest days of my life.

absent I agree boys can be just as bad.

DS was verbally abused on a daily basis by a particular boy whilst at school. Simply because DS has a large mole on his face !!!!! I might add the school's handling of this was rubbish !

DD was attacked outside a youth club leaving her with a nasty blackeye, by 4-5 girls that had been giving her grief at school.

Don't imagine that boys are immune to bullying and bitchiness. I know of one whose life was made a misery for an entire year because he wore the "wrong" type of trainers. Modern technology makes bullying much easier to do and much more intrusive in young people's lives.

Mmm. The only person who tried to bully me at school got clonked on the head by a hefty physics textbook. End of problem. The girl in question actually turned out quite nice in the end. Even her own mother thought so.

DD who is still at school finds the bitchiness of some classmates very tiresome. Her wearing of odd socks is a kind of rebellion to show that when they sneer at petty things she can just laugh at them.

A classmate tried to bully my GD by text. Luckily she is the sort of girl who doesn't lack self-esteem and nipped it in the bud. Another type of girl could have been completely demoralised. I don't know why girls are like this, but it has always been thus. When we were at school, we were more likely to fight it out or take a sneaky swipe with a hockey stick during a PE lesson.

I can remember one of my daughters suffering dreadful cruelty at the hands of her peers when a teenager. She was talented musically and in art, wore glasses, had a soft nature - just not cool enough for them and they gave her hell.

The idea that some young people (both boys and girls) want to be celebs is so pernicious - in my dealings with young people in schools, they often have no concept of hard graft being a prerequisite for achievement.

Yes you are right there were always mean girls that tried to make themselves feel better by putting others down.
i do think though that "celeb" magazines are the absolute pits as they seem to be filled with endless criticism of women in the news (too fat, too thin, etc etc etc)