The Archers and Downs Syndrome.

A relative and very close friend had a child with DS and she was just in her 20s, it can happen to anyone. She debunks the myth that they are all a happy bunch, they are happy and well adjusted only if they have been brought up that way. She also believes that mainstream education is not always right, it is not helpful to the child, and that is her job (special needs education) She felt making the child socially acceptable to be far more important than learning to read. Health is of concern, heart condition and gout need medication and oxygen therapy during the night.
This might sound negative but this family member is greatly loved and gives a lot in return.

It has always been assumed that it was the age of the mother which was a factor in the conception of Downs syndrome babies, but I understand that it is in fact the father's age that makes the difference. So it is down to Mike and not Vicky.
We have a second cousin with Down's syndrome, her mother was 40 something when she was born and her father in his late 50's/early 60's. In a way she has been lucky as she will always be provided for, but sadly her father died of a stroke about 5 years ago just a year after their son, her older brother, dropped dead playing rugby in his late 20's . We always thought that he would the person to look after her after his parents had gone, but sadly that was not to be.

In the mid 1970s at a day centre with boarding for children and young adults with learning difficulties I met a young guy with Downs syndrome in his late teens. He was about to climb on the flat roof with a step ladder to retrieve lost balls etc. I made some remark about taking care up there. The lad replied "Dont worry Miss I used to be a cat burglar!" That clever bit of repartee rather challenged my assumptions about the condition.

baubles I can believe it. My niece's family would all say their lives were enriched by having her, despite the pain. It is by no means a simple issue is it?

The followers of Rudolf Steiner believe that people with Downs syndrome are a blessing.

Interesting discussion. An uncle of mine has Downs, he is 68 years old and has been in residential care for a number of years. He has lived a happy life. Sadly, he now suffers from Altzeimers disease and no longer always recognises his loved and loving family. Our lives have been enhanced by his life.

Neither do I, Greatnan. When I was pregnant with my first child I was going through the usual first mother anxieties and asked DH what would happen if the baby were disabled. DH replied that we would make the best of it. Brave words but I knew that all the responsibility and hard work would fall on my shoulders as, lovely though he is, he fell into the old fashioned category of husband. New man was still a long way off. Thankfully all our three children were born fit and well but I'm sure if I had known of a sure disability I would have had a termination.

Mamie - I don't disagree with anything you say.

Of course nobody would say that people with Down's, cerebral palsy, autism and any other kind of special need are not capable of having a fulfilled life and of course they should be treated with respect and not pigeon-holed or labelled. Nor can anyone deny that it can be a long, hard road for them and for their families. My neighbour in her eighties was coping with a man of 40 who needed help with toileting and showering, needed to be cajoled to get up, get dressed and prevented from eating to excess.
Scanning was not routine when I had my children, but I am sure that I would have chosen to have a termination.

I agree with mamie children with DS are as varied as any other kids! The last school I was at had several children with DS over the time I was there. Some children had a very successful time but others, whose needs were significant, would IMO have fared better in a special school. Some parents coped very well and accepted their child's limitations and celebrated and supported what they could do. Others spent their time trying to make their child be 'normal' sending them to all kinds of therapies/ classes/ clubs etc that were not always appropriate in all sorts of ways but also wanting special treatment for them. It is often, understandably, very hard for parents of children with significant special needs to come to terms with the disabilities and limitations of their condition. Others find it easier to accept the situation and I have to say those were the happier children and parents.

I have no idea what kind of parent I would have been in that situation and I am not making a judgement just saying what I observed.

As I said, I would not criticise any woman who decided to have an abortion.

Just to clarify - I am not advocating routine termination, just presenting a personal perspective.

My niece had Downs syndrome and due to medical prejudice she was not given essential medical treatment as a child with the result that she developed heart failure and died in her twenties. Adults with Downs syndrome still experience medical problems and do not generally have a full life expectancy or a healthy old age. It is not only the question of how parents will cope with a child with Downs syndrome but how they, and the rest of the family will cope for the whole of the person's life.

When I was pregnant with my last child at the age of 37 (not a hugely increased risk) I decided to have an amnio because I had seen all these issues affecting those very close to me. I was not absolutely sure I would have a termination if the baby was affected but I felt I needed to know. My niece was very much loved and deeply mourned, but her life was full of suffering and her family suffered with her.

There are many conditions which can shorten life and give rise to cognitive and physical problems. Should Downs children not be given the same chances as other children who are not 'perfect'?

Yes Greatnan. I do know and have known people with Downs, and I know there are actors who have this syndrome.

Trouble is, you can't tell the degree to which a child will have it. There's the problem. I would hate to think of a child of mine having severe health problems towards the end of their (probably short) life.

That's all.

Mamie - it is many years since I read the report about literacy but I think it applied to the old Yugoslavia. I don't think I implied that every single Downs child was happy - just that as a group they are capable of having a fulfilled life. I do know that there are wide variations in the levels of disability, but I would hate all children with the condition to be written off.

No, sorry Greatnan, it is not true that in some countries every Down's child is literate. Down's syndrome covers a wide range of abilities, some people are non-verbal, and some are non-literate. They are not by definition the happiest group of people either; they can include a wide range of emotional states. I have worked a lot with Down's children in the UK and it is no different to another special need; it is a complex and varied condition. My elderly neighbour here has a Down's son of 40, she has reluctantly had to let him go into residential care because coping with his physical needs and his emotional frustrations at the age of 84 is too much for her.

Well said Great nan. Every person has a value.

I agree with Greatnan I know some downs people and they are certainly not suffering. They are happy and fulfilled.

Jingle - have you ever known anyone with Downs? They are the happiest group of people in the world. Many marry and go out to work. There are a couple of talented actors who have Downs. I don't think they would call themselves 'sufferers'. In some countries, every Downs child is literate - it just takes the political will and the resources, and a positive attitude towards the condition (it is not an illness, although some children with Downs will have other health problems).

I was thinking of the sufferer Greatnan! Maybe it's not fair to allow it to happen.

I hope and believe I could cope, as so many parents do. On the other hand, I would never criticise anyone who had an abortion if they really felt it was right for them.

Friday's episode had me in tears and it takes a bit to do that! Mike has always been something of a grumpy old S** but good at heart.

I can confirm this is true jingl I have experience of Downns Syndrome and I am not sure I would be able to cope even with my medical background.

about it here

Yes.

They have an online poll once a week, and the question last week was, should Vicky have the baby or not?

Outrage ensued. Quite rightly. They took it down in the end.