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We are delighted that John, author of Turning Points in Modern History, our latest taster course from Pearson.
John - a grandfather of five - studied history at Cambridge University and then taught history in secondary schools, eventually becoming a head teacher.
Whilst teaching history, he began to write history text books for schools; he has now written or co-written over twenty now.
The Turning Points course is about key events of the past hundred years. But not just any events... the events which changed the course of history.
Turning Points selects six world events and makes the case that they changed the world. And then it takes a seventh event – the 9/11 attacks on the USA in 2001 – and asks you if you think it was a turning point.
Do add your questions on modern history here.
Ian42
A question I would like to ask is, when does history become history?
A good question Ian42.
Probably longer ago than is currently fashionable.
I really think that we need to be far enough away from events to be able to see the wood from the trees.
The events in Turning Points start in 1914 and go all the way through to 2001. Shooting myself in the foot for a moment, 2001 is possibly too recent.
What do you think?
What this seems to be coming down to is 'what is REAL?' Hilary Mantel made a case on radio this morning for enhancing understanding of the facts by giving us a sense of what it felt like to be in a room at the time of Cromwell. Surely there's a case for giving us the emotional truth? (The truth after all is never definitive and I don't think anyone could fault Mantel's research - she's been working on this project most of her life).
Nazi Germany over-taught in schools. One reason is perhaps that lots of TV and film is available, it was the first war with extensive filming (by both sides) and audio/radio.
So lots of non-reading material readily available.
Bit different if you're studying the Tudors, or the Victorian influence on Africa!
clubber
Hi John,
The Greeks see the current austerity package being imposed on them as a re-run of their experiences with the Germans in WWII. Images of Angela Merkel as a Nazi etc. Do you think it's possible to have too much of a sense of history?
No clubber, - great question by the way - I don't think you can have too much of a sense of history...
...any more than you can have too much of a sense of perspective.
But you can have an imperfect and shallow sense of history. That's a bad thing. And it argues for more history, not less.
gillybob
Oh John John John please elaborate. So when I am telling my grand daughter about the "child who had to go down the mine at 10 years old" or the little girl working as a scullery maid etc and she asks "what was he or she called grandma ? " I should tell her that they are not real people?
Surely this is not the right way to make history real for a young child and that to enjoy history they should be able to relate it to real life?
I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher
gillybob!
Fantastic! A debate!
You MUST argue with the history teacher. You MUST argue.
History is about different interpretations of the past which we must test against other interpretations to move closer to the 'truth'.
On the subject of real people, I may not have made myself clear. I really DO believe that it's useful to use REAL people to illustrate history. (For example, I've recently written a course for Pearson on Family History - how to find out the history of our own ancestors). So, using diaries, contemporary pictures, wage books, etc etc (primary sources) to tell the history of REAL individual people is good. But for a child to read historical fiction which may or may not give an accurate picture of imagined characters from the past is a dangerous thing.
Please respond. I look forward to your views.
Hi John,
The Greeks see the current austerity package being imposed on them as a re-run of their experiences with the Germans in WWII. Images of Angela Merkel as a Nazi etc. Do you think it's possible to have too much of a sense of history?
scribblegranny
Why are children repeatedly taught the rise of the Nazi Party at school and so little else? My DGS has done it about three times now, including for both GCSE and A level (different schools).
The Tudors are also popular but there are great swathes of history that schools no longer seem to touch.
What accounts for these fashions and wouldn't it be better to give children an overview?
Good question scribbegranny. There is no good answer.
I do think that the rise of the Nazi Party, the type of society which developed under Hitler and also the Holocaust should be studied by all children.
Because some only study History to the end of Year 9 (age 14) it has to be done by then. But it's a very popular subject - and GCSE syllabi are offered into an educational market place. So most exam boards and schools offer it for GCSE and A Level to ensure that they get a good take-up.
If you have a free-for all market place in education, you can't control what students choose to learn.
Oh John John John please elaborate. So when I am telling my grand daughter about the "child who had to go down the mine at 10 years old" or the little girl working as a scullery maid etc and she asks "what was he or she called grandma ? " I should tell her that they are not real people?
Surely this is not the right way to make history real for a young child and that to enjoy history they should be able to relate it to real life?
I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher I must not argue with history teacher
Ha! Very interested in your answer to flopsybunny. Given that history is written by the victors, aren't we only ever getting a form of fiction anyway?
wiggle
Yes - re 9/11 - did you think at the time - this is a moment that will stand as a turning point in history forever?
Hi wiggle,
Sorry, I think I answered your question when I was talking to 'ticktock'. See my answer there for my response to your question.
If the Archduke hadn't been shot, surely the First World War would have started sooner or later anyway? The Great Powers wanted it too much; they would have found another casus belli?
ticktock
Hello! Where were you during the 9/11 attacks? As a historian, how did you feel about it?
Hi ticktock,
Good name for a chat about history.
On the day of the 9/11 attacks I was at school - as a headteacher, not as a student! Our receptionist was told about it by incoming callers. At first, we didn't really understand the significance. After a while, work stopped and we all went to television screens.
How do I feel about it as a historian? Two things.
Firstly, it's fascinating history. Politics, religion, warfare, real human tragedy, role of the individual - all rolled into one. There are some heart-rending stories on the 9/11 Commission website. Anyone can look at the Commission Report.
Secondly, one-sixth of our Turning Points in History course is about 9/11. It was really interesting to consider whether 9/11 was a turning point. And, do you know what? On reflection, I think it wasn't. Try the course to find out why
flopsybunny
Given that Hilary Mantel has just won the Booker for the second time, how do you account for the popularity of historical fiction? Do you think it has anything to teach us about history? Are you a fan of Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies?
Hi flopsybunny
How topical are you!?
I loved Wolf Hall and I can't wait to read Bring Up the Bodies. But...
...gillybob asked me about this and I have to admit that I'm very nervous about the value of historical fiction for teaching history. It's fine to read historical fiction about a period you know well, but children find it difficult to tell fact from fiction, so it's dangerous to mix the two whilst they are still learning about an event or period.
Possibly not a popular view, but there you are.
Why are children repeatedly taught the rise of the Nazi Party at school and so little else? My DGS has done it about three times now, including for both GCSE and A level (different schools).
The Tudors are also popular but there are great swathes of history that schools no longer seem to touch.
What accounts for these fashions and wouldn't it be better to give children an overview?
loudmouth
Hi John,
Are there really turning points or do things just slide into each other? The biggest revolution in my lifetime has been the internet but that seems to be a coming together of lots of innovations and lots of people thinking along similar lines in a sort of cycle with technological possibilities,
Thanks
Hi loudmouth
There most certainly are turning points - but fewer than you'd think. That's what made writing Turning Points in History so fascinating.
Minette asked what a turning point is. I would suggest it is an event or time which significantly changed the direction of events. Some events (possibly including the development of the internet) speeded up events, catapulting things forward, but arguably only in the direction they were already going. That's not a turning point.
Try the free taster for Turning Points for more on this.
Given that Hilary Mantel has just won the Booker for the second time, how do you account for the popularity of historical fiction? Do you think it has anything to teach us about history? Are you a fan of Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies?
Do you think it's right that the British Citizenship test includes questions on British history? Have you had a look at them and do you think they're the right questions? How does anyone decide that the key thing to know is which king defeated the Vikings at the end of the 9th century?
Greatnan
I would be interested to know if John thinks that the rote learning of dates is still a good way of teaching history, or should lessons be concentrating on historical methods and the broad sweep of history.
Another pet interest of mine is the place of women in history - or should I say the non-place? Most history books ignore the lives of half the human race. I am fascinated by social history which is much more interesting than wars and dynasties!
Thank-you for starting us off Greatnan.
There are at least 3 questions there. I'll answer one to get us under way.
What should the teaching of history achieve? Well, it depends what you think education is for.
If you think it is for developing the memory, then teaching the facts and having these learnt by rote is the way.
If you think education is to develop the mind, then using history to teach skills, ideas and interpretations is what you'd do.
What do you think?
John is here and ready to answer a very interesting set of questions - but there's still time to add more so do add yours to the thread too!
Yes - re 9/11 - did you think at the time - this is a moment that will stand as a turning point in history forever?
Hello! Where were you during the 9/11 attacks? As a historian, how did you feel about it?
If you could go back in time for one event, what would it be? For me, The Great Exhibition! [apologies if this has already been asked; no time to go back through the thread!] Oh, and which tv presenter do you think bring s history to life the best? I used to like Michael Wood but I now prefer the guy who did the amazing series about the Normans. Everyone I knew loved it. And, why do people sometimes wear cotton gloves when handling old objects and sometimes they don't. There seems to be no common thread; even old manuscripts/letters are sometimes handled without gloves. Over the years many of us had questioned this. Sorry; I'll shut up now 
.
Hi John,
Are there really turning points or do things just slide into each other? The biggest revolution in my lifetime has been the internet but that seems to be a coming together of lots of innovations and lots of people thinking along similar lines in a sort of cycle with technological possibilities,
Thanks
Am going to make some lunch now so I can be ready for 1-2pm. Some great starters above. Yes, effblinder, fashion is an interesting one. It spurs unnecessary consumption, ie it "helps the economy", also sometimes it seems to be technology driven, so in fact the miniskirts worn now are totally different from the ones girls wore in the 60s, the invention of Lycra has ensured that. There are theories that hemlines respond to economic times, I think it's that skirts shorten in times of economic prosperity and lengthen in bad times.
But many skirts are extremely short now - or even absent, this extraordinary, to me, fashion for wearing just tights with no skirt at all! I know men did that in Renaissance times but not women, also Lycra/Spandex may have made tights a very different, more shaped garment than in 1450s Italy. Skirts are short but we don't seem to be enjoying economic prosperity here in the UK at all just now!
Whether stories are embellished is also fascinating. Could John Child perhaps explain how historians deal with this. I know importance is given to material from Primary Sources but what does that mean and how exactly does it work? I think historians are know to fall out badly over accuracy/interpretation, could John Child just mention some cases and how they were resolved, if indeed they ever were!
Hi John! Have any of your children/grandchildren followed your interest in history and made a career of it?
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