NHS Fees for migrants

Oh, dammit. I forgot to mention that when I went to France to stay with Greatnan. It's only a bit of osteoporosis at the head of one femur, but a fracture there would incur a lot of expense. Must ring them up before I go to France at the end of the month. Thanks for the reminder, Nellie.

why shouldnt foreigners pay for health insurance when they come here?they get the treatment then go back home and we are left to foot the bill, surely enough is enough, lets get a little harder over this matter which is costing the country vast amounts of money, it seems we are being overrun with illegal immigrants and folk who use us for free medical treatment, its about time we said NO MORE

worlie

To some extent I agree with you.
When my friend from Singapore fell he was staying at my home and we went to collect his policy from my house as it was virtually on the way to the hospital.
The day before we went to Oxford and he left his policy in my house.
If the accident had happened in Oxford he would have not been able to produce it so quickly.
As I said the hospital was not interested.
I don't know if the hospital handled the situation correctly but it will be difficult to recover any money now.

Frank

Strange thing is, as we now live abroad, we are no longer allowed to use the health service, despite contributing throughout our lives and careers (well fro me from the age of 19 when I came to live in UK)- and despite still having property in the UK. We are covered for emergency treatment via EHIC and that is it. So we have to have holiday insurance to visit the UK.

But tit is a very complex issue. Imagine someone coming from abroad who develops or has, pre diagnosed or not, either HIV or tuberculosis. Not treating them could result in a spread of those terrible diseases to UK residents, as has happened many times before. Also do we want to have a system, as in the USA, where people won't be treated unless they can give evidence of insurance, and be left dying at the door of hospitals? It is what happens here in Switzerland, you have to give your medical insurance card at reception to any doctor or hospital first.

It is indeed a complex issue, grandjura!

Members of the EU countries are covered, but we cannot let people die or suffer because we don't approve of their nationalities or now they got here. I would like to think that would not happen, however, even if insurance were mandatory for visitors.

Rants about illegal immigrants don't really add to the debate, in my opinion.

BTW many UK expats living in FRance and Spain, etc, do fraudulently use the NHS, using relatives' address. I can fully understand that, like us, they feel they are entitled to a system they have contributed for so long, and in the case of my OH in more ways than one, having worked so hard for the NHS for 40 years, at times working 130+ hours per week. But fact is, it is clear that if one goes to live abroad, one knows clearly that this is the deal and the law, and should adhere with it. We have in the past paid for private visits and private prescriptions, and I voluntarily gave in my free prescription card which was valid until 2015, as we fully respect the wonderful institution that is the NHS. A National but not International Health service, with a limited amount of money allocated to it (and far too small a % of GDP compared to other European countries and many others). Each 'wrong or fraudulent' takes money and staff/facilities away from patients entitled to use the system.

Members of EU countries are covered via EHIC, but only for emergency treatment, I believe. Do correct me if I am wrong. A French person cannot opt to go to UK for routine health care or operation, without prior agreement, can they?

Granjura, I don't know where you heard people are left dying at hospital doors! That does not happen! They are required to offer emergency treatment. One reason hospital bills are so expensive is because it helps pay for those without insurance.I was a nurse at ST. Thomas in Nashville and took care of many poor people without insurance.One pt. I remember very well had shot herself in the stomach and spent month and months in intensive care with no expense spared to save her life....she eventually made it to a reg. hospital floor but died because she wouldn't eat.

Worlie - do you have any statistics to suggest that Britain is being 'overrun' by immigrants? We recently had an interesting thread about the myths that many people believe because they suit their prejudices.
If I needed emergency treatment in the UK I would simply use my EHIC card- luckily, I don't have any ongoing health problems that are likely to require treatment. I have no way of knowing how many expats use relative's addresses to get treatment - I don't suppose they would be boasting about it.

My step mother in law lives in Spain and has had mega heart surgery done in England. I did not realise that she was not allowed to have it done on the NHS. I expect she gave the address of one of her daughters, so it only cost her the flight to England.

I expect she would prefer people not to know about that, Charleygirl!

Of course we're overrun by foreigners, we're a mongrel race. Invaded by the Romans, the Vikings, Normans, and various other refugees and economic migrants since the year dot. Our DNA is a wonderful hotch-pot of races.
What ancestry does worlie claim that makes her a pedigree?
Even the Royal family are of (fairly recent) German descent.

Once you are registered as resident elsewhere, and pay tax there, you are no longer entitled to NHS treatment in the UK. I imagine, and yes, I do NOT have statistics (and since the action is fraudulent, unlikely to be available ...) that UK expats no longer entitled to use the NHS cost more to the system than illegal immigrants.

You forgot the Anglo-Saxons aka. Always makes me laugh when people in the UK rant about the 'funiners' invading the UK, with the back up 'we are true Anglo-Saxons' and I reply 'ah yes, I forgot you are German'

And what about the Huguenots?

It drives me mad when the French call us Anglo-Saxons, which the media do all the time. "Anglo-Saxon newspapers" which must be the Chronicle, I think, Anglo-Saxon leaders, must be Bede. Anglo-Saxon attitudes (Angus Wilson). Grrr... Je suis normande, moi...

Indeed, I am of Huguenot descent, but via Switzerland

To inform debate here. Try reading this

www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/uk-visitors/Pages/accessing-nhs-services.aspx

And this fullfact.org/factchecks/cost_of_health_tourism_to_the_nhs-28866

and this with attention to the following proviso.

Comment on 2012 Review

It is important to keep in mind the limitations of the analysis presented as part of the review 2012.
There is no comprehensive evidence covering this subject (be it in academic literature, official statistics or easily accessible data from sources such as Hospital Trusts).

The estimates that were presented in the 2012 review were based on a small survey of overseas visitors’ managers and extrapolations of travel data/border movements and are therefore considered to be subjective rather than objective and unlikely to provide us with a true national picture.

In addition, estimates were derived from multiple data sources, such as Home Office, Office for Higher Education, Trust accounts, and others, which may lack accuracy, sometimes contradict each other and most of the time cannot be easily compared.

Consequently the estimates in this document should be considered as no more than an illustration of likely scope.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/210439/Overseas_Visitors_Charging_Review_2012_-_Summary_document.pdf

From above link:

Expatriates
42.Expatriates (British nationals no longer resident in the UK) are not automatically entitled to free NHS treatment as they are not ‘ordinarily resident’ here. At any moment in time, on average, there are estimated to be about 100,000 ex-pats visiting England of whom 15,000 are older than 65.
43.Many argue that they all should be exempt due to their past payment of taxes, indeed some may still be paying some UK tax. Ex pats are exempt immediately if genuinely returning to resume permanent residence (estimated to be about 75,000 ex-pats each year).
44.Effective screening and subsequent application of the charging rules for ex-pats is extremely challenging for hospital staff, in terms both of validating entitlement and of confronting the patient. Ex pats who have managed to stay registered with a GP (contrary to the Contract Regulations), may also access prescription drugs during short-term visits. In addition, as the UK already statutorily pays for the healthcare of its state pensioners residing in another EEA country (the EEA medical costs scheme), this means we effectively pay twice for the healthcare of this group if they access free treatment while visiting.

(edit comment from me: it is illegal to remain registered with a GP in the UK if resident abroad. Also the comment : may also access prescription drugs, does not mean 'may' as in 'are allowed' but 'will perhaps even ..'- which is illegal too).

Thank you for giving us the facts, Nelliemoser . Of course, we don't know how many of those fraudulent claimants are expats living in France and I suspect nobody else does either.

If you scroll down the link you will come to a diagram with an estimate, or guesstimate. Of course we are talking about UK expats who live all over the world, and not just France.

And do they all use a relative's address? Perhaps some have kept a property in England. Yes, it is very dishonest to claim something to which you are not entitled - I know insurance fraud puts up everybody's premiums and it must be the same with the NHS.

aka exactly. You're on a roll today!

Mamie, I may have Anglo Saxon blood in my veins, but most likely Viking, Celtic and Norman (which is really Viking anyway).

You make me sound like a hot dog Ariadne