feeling proud to be British

So sad to read these stories of the past in Wales. As a child our family always rented a cottage for the annual two week holiday and invariably had a wonderful time. I can say the names of the places we stayed in not spell them!

A more recent story is a wonderful one. A very, very close friend of mine from Northumberland married a Welsh headmaster about thirty years ago and went off to north Wales to live. She said that in the heart of Welsh speaking Wales everyone immediately switched to English so as not to exclude her. She then realised that she really needed to become fluent and succeeded so well that she now teaches it at the university of Bangor.

The funny story is that recently she was with a largish group of mixed English and Welsh speakers and so all spoke in English, then her colleague, who had also learned Welsh as she had married a Welshman, was astonished to hear her her speak and declared that had 'no idea that you were a posh Geordie!'.

Same here, Nfk. We used to spend a lot of time in Wales staying with farming friends who worked for the same company as DH. We would often be turned away from pubs saying they 'didn't do food' when we could clearly see people eating and our children would not be allowed in even though their own children were running about. The signposts were switched around, holiday homes set on fire and shopkeepers were unfriendly.

We made friends with some of the local people and they visited us in East Anglia but even though we were helping their economy as DH was a farm machinery consultant, I was not sorry to leave Wales to the Welsh when he left farming.

Here, here Geatnan - and the ruthless and powerful seem to be getting richer and more powerful.

(Can I add - in a small voice - that many years ago when in my teens I went pony trekking in the Brecon Beacons. We camped behind a pub which some of us were old enough to go in, and yes, some of the locals did glare at us and switch to speaking Welsh. But that was also in the days when non-Welsh holiday homes were being torched. I think things are on a friendlier footing now - I think)

Workers of the world - unite! Don't waste your anger on each other, save it for the ruthless and powerful, whatever their nationality.

Micelf, Elothan and when - you've done it again. Thanks for your comments. As others have said, Wales isn't the only part of this country that is suffering economically having contributed blood sweat and tears. It increasingly feels to me that we're back in Dick Whittington's days, with the streets of London paved with gold and the rest of us scrimping by on bread and jam. I do accept that many ordinary families/people in London are struggling financially and don't want to be offensive to them.

Proverbs 16:18

I meant the person in Penrhyn getting offended was amusing. And your second part hitting nail etc

No I know it is not surprising Eleothan that's what I said. But just to clarify she was talking about the days of slavery, when even wealthy women had no rights at all - no right to own property, no right to custody of their children, no right to refuse sex to their husbands etc. No the much later times when buses were invented.
That's amusing micelf and hits the nail on the head. Who invented this nation state nonsense anyway? Was it the normans?

And of course they knew that we were English. My neighbours soon made sure of that.

Anniebach - your post implies that I am lying which I very much resent.

Well said MiceElf.

Pride seems to me to be a fairly pointless emotion unless it motivates us to protect and maintain what we are proud of. If we are truly proud of our country - for its justice system, its health service, its education, etc. - then perhaps now is the time to consider whether these institutions are under attack.

Jess I agree that many white people in the US and the UK did not (and do not) enjoy the privileged and comfortable lives that Maya Angelou imagined. However, white people were not treated as inherently inferior and made to use separate toilets, sit at the back of the bus, move off the pavement if a white person approaches, etc. In the context of experiencing that sort of treatment, it's not surprising that Maya Angelou thought that all white people had it easy.

I am very mindful of the continuing racism of many people in the USA, especially in the 'bible belt', and I am deeply aware that it works in both directions. I am so pleased to find that most of the young people of my grandchildren's generation are so open-minded and judge people individually, and not on their race, colour, sexuality or gender.
I won't mention my experience in Mold again. I don't hold all Welsh people responsible for it, just the women who did it.

Sorry Greatnan but the tale of Welsh shops has been spoken of so often there has to be far more people speaking Welsh than english in Wales. It is silly, do tell me, how do all these Welsh people in shops in Wales know the person who walks through the doorway isn't Welsh? It's an urban myth

I can understand your point about ancestors greatnan . I see it as a class issue mainly rather than one of nationality. But I can also understand that some people still feel pain and resentment.
Maya Angelou wrote a poem that seemed to imply that when her ancestors were slaves all white women were sitting around in pretty dresses, getting waited on. I felt this poem was a bit... well black and white... and that it ignored the fact that most white women were also having it tough in different ways at the time. But I can understand that people whose ancestors were slaves still feel resentment when they see the economic conditions in which so many black people live in the US and caribbean today.

Not prickly, just deeply angry that my child was treated so cruelly. And I can assure you that my next door neighbour was not joking - he was a miserable so and so. You can question it as much as you like - I was not the only English person who found people switching from English to Welsh when they entered a shop. Do you not agree that it was, at the very least, rude and unfriendly?
I have lived in many different places and I have always got on extremely well with my neighbours - Mold was my only experience of hostility.

Greatnan, I did not say your experience did not happen, I did question why would two people choose to chat in their second language, this is not the norm with Welsh speakers. This is difficult because you do seem a little prickly, is it not possible the person who said they hoped you were not going to borrow things was just having a joke ?

We had a rather unpleasant time with a family who moved into a village, they complained because one morning service a month was in Welsh, their complaint based on English should be spoken in The Church of England, they didn't know the two churches were disestablished years ago lol. They complained that the village school greeted each morning in Welsh, just two words but no way were they prepared to teach their children the good grace to respect this . They even complained that concerts closed with the singing of the Welsh Anthem.

We have lovely English families who moved here and enrolled in Welsh language classes

Exactly, Jess, my hurt was because my child was treated so badly, so of course it was personal. I think most mothers would feel as angry as I did, so I won't 'get over it'.
That is hardly the same as holding a grudge against a whole nation for the wrongs done in the past by the rulers of that nation. I repeat, my ancestors were just as badly treated by those English rulers as the other nations. I don't know how else I can get that point over.

BTW my review was 28 July 2011. I'd forgotten how cross I was! Well said Whenim. How right you are.

Once again, hear, hear, MiceElf!

If only our politicians would look forward a few years or decades, and think about the hurt and resentments that will be harboured by their unwanted interference in other countries. Peaceful and constructive intervention that is wanted in suffering communities, here and overseas, is what is needed.

Jess M we went to Penrhyn Castle last year and I made the same points as you to the (Welsh) guide who took umbrage at my comment and declared that the entire country was in the grip of Marxists!

(Review somewhere on Tripadvisor)

From that, and much more, I conclude that the great divide is not a matter of nationality, however defined, but of the exploiters and the exploited, who would be well advised to make common cause with those similarly exploited and not let the exploiters divide and rule. Just as long there is dissension and arguments between nations, groups, tribes, and communities over trivial matters, those in power will be happily continuing to look to their own interests while ignoring the want and need around them.

Greatnan I'm not defending, or excusing rudeness or unkindness and neither I suspect is Annie. But you are saying that other people should forgive and forget what happened in the past - while your personal hurt is obviously extremely raw after 30 or more years. You made your point several pages back. I can't tell you do get over it and I don't think it is reasonable to say that other folks should get over things.
My point was not about your experiences - it was the wider point that the economic deprivation suffered by people living in Wales now is very real and that the roots of this are undoubtedly historical. So they can, perhaps, be understandably not that keen to feel part of the more affluent and English dominated UK.
Just been to Penrhyn Castle, built by an industrialist in the 19th C. Blow me down with a tiny puff of air - it must have cost billions in today's money. (When the Prince of Wales visited in the early 20th C they had 100 sitting down to dinner)
Where did that money come from? Two sources. The poorly paid labour of Welsh men in slate quarries and the unpaid labour of slaves on sugar plantations.

We had plenty while the Olympics were on.

You can be inclusive and still be proud to be British. It would be terrible if we lost all our national pride!

Excellent post, Micelf - time to stop thinking of ourselves with national labels which just exclude 'the others'.

Agree MiceElf!