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Should Britain be suspended from the Commonwealth?

(15 Posts)
Possiejim Sun 29-Sept-13 08:43:11

Most British people regard themselves as proud to uphold core civilised values of fairness, equality and non-discrimination. Britain's current PM David Cameron appears to support these core values. In 2012 soon after the Tories' General Election success he was attributed with saying "Fairness is at the heart of everything we do". More recently, last year, speaking about gay and lesbian marriage he is said to have commented;
"I've a passionate belief in equality for all".
However, show these pious comments, attributed to David Cameron, to most of the 550,000 retiree UK expats who happen to now live mainly in Commonwealth countries, 158,000 in Canada, over 50,000 in New Zealand and 252,000 in Australia, and how do you think they would they rate Cameron's honesty and his practices, having regards to these core values?
Knowing much about the manner in which these expats are treated with regard to their part or whole UK pensions, for which we have all paid the same contributions, when living and working in the UK, these expats' feelings would be absolutely dismissive of Cameron's words.
From my own experience, when visiting the UK and speaking with people there, very few are aware that the British Government classes and treats these expats, mostly retired in Commonwealth countries, as second class citizens. For even although they are given a UK pension at age 65, when they leave the country or commence this UK pension abroad in these Commonwealth nations and some others, like Thailand, most of the smaller Caribbean nations, the Falkland Islands, Hong Kong etc, this UK pension remains the same for the rest of their lives. A £50 part pension started now will still be paid as £50 in 20 years time. The UK pension is frozen in several countries, never to rise again despite continuing inflation.
What irritates us is that UK pension increases do apply for 630,000 expats who live in various illogical countries like the Philippines. Turkey, Israel Mauritius, Barbados, the US and in the EU.
The British Government's excuse for this selective differential pension payment treatment is cost, although cost or budgetary considerations was recently declared as "not an acceptable reason for discrimination" in a UK Supreme Court case in February 2013.
The Government also claims it is legally acceptable and proven in several court cases, that there is no need to pay indexed pensions unless there is a reciprocal or bilateral agreement to do so, which applies with many countries but not in the countries without an agreement and where the pension is therefore frozen. Moreover Britain intransigently refuses to negotiate any more agreements, not that this is practical as concluded in a 1997 UK Parliamentary Select committee report on this issue, in which it concludes;- "A simple change in British law could enable [pension] up-ratings to be paid in any or all overseas countries provided the political will was there to do so"
So where does the Commonwealth now come in to this argument?
This year the Queen signed the Commonwealth Charter in which it states;-
"We [the Commonwealth] are committed to equality and respect for the protection of civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights for all, without discrimination". "We are implacably opposed to all forms of discrimination whether rooted in any grounds".
The Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group [A collection of 9 Commonwealth Foreign Ministers] are supported according to the Charter "to address promptly and effectively all instances of serious or persistent violations of Commonwealth values without fear or favour".
It is the view of many expats residents in Commonwealth countries,who are suffering financially from a frozen, depreciating UK pension income because the British Government is persistently violating the Commonwealth Charter by not paying them pensions equally with their contemporaries resident in unfrozen countries that something drastic has to be done to remedy this persistent anomaly.
Therefore this persistent violation of Commonwealth values should be brought to the attention of the CHOGM in November 2013 in Sri Lanka and peer group pressure brought to bear upon the British Government to practice what David Cameron preaches and the Commonwealth Charter calls upon. For otherwise Britain should be suspended from the Commonwealth until it puts right its intransigent attitude which British Governments have adopted for over 60 years and the Government should comply with the conclusions of the HoC 1997 Select Committee report to make the simple change in British law so that all British pensioners are paid in the same way universally, irrespective in which country they are retired.

For more information visit www.pensionjustice.org www.telegraph.co.uk/frozenpensions/ & www.bpia.org.au

smile

Greatnan Sun 29-Sept-13 09:00:14

Thanks for this, I will be one of the expats caught out by this infamous rule when I emigrate to New Zealand.

Aka Sun 29-Sept-13 09:54:59

In answer to the OP, no Britain should not be suspended from the Commonwealth. I do not see the logic in pensions being frozen in some counties for ex-pats and not others though. It should be one rule for all.

Charleygirl Sun 29-Sept-13 10:11:49

It is very unfair. An aunt of mine, long dead, really struggled financially years after she moved to Canada as her two pensions were frozen. She went to help out with grandchildren etc. but it was a big sacrifice financially.

I had no idea that those emigrating to the Philippines, Turkey, Barbados etc received an annual increase.

When one considers the amount of Government money wasted, the annual increase to these people in Canada, Australia etc. even with a reasonable amount back paid, is just a drop in the ocean when one thinks about the amount of money squandered.

I would not agree to the winter fuel allowance being paid but upgrading the pensions, yes.

Lilygran Sun 29-Sept-13 14:12:36

It does seem very unfair. Is it something to do with reciprocal agreements with other countries?

Greatnan Sun 29-Sept-13 16:22:05

Charleygirl - have you spent a winter in the Alps? We won't get the WFA because the average temperature for France is being calculated by including all the French territories in the tropics! What about calculating the average temperature for Britain by including the overseas territories
in hot countries?
I am still paying UK tax on my two government pensions.
These are both spiteful rules which will save very little money but will make life harder for many expat pensioners.

Greatnan Sun 29-Sept-13 16:23:48

Yes, it is to do with reciprocal agreements, but the British government has refused to enter into any new agreements. Please read the OP, which gives a very full picture of the situation.

Iam64 Sun 29-Sept-13 18:19:58

I wonder if anyone could challenge this, on behalf of a larger group. Someone else will know - is there a way to legally challenge it? I might just appeal to one of the more liberal law firms as a no win no fee issue. It'd certainly get them lots of free publicity.

absent Sun 29-Sept-13 18:28:06

There was a legal challenge a couple of years ago, I think. It failed.

Iam64 Sun 29-Sept-13 18:41:37

ah ...

Possiejim Sat 05-Oct-13 00:41:32

Iam64 et al , this issue went to the British High Court, the Court of Appeal, The House of Lords and even later the Grand Chamber of the European Court of Human Rights and we lost in them all. In the last, the ECHR, by 11-6. All these hearings took took 8 years and cost us over £500,000. So licking our wounds we have since chosen to take this issue to a political fight.
We now have support form 2 elder Tories Sir Roger Gale and Sir Peter Bottomly but all we get back from Parliament is "what we do is legally sound and proven in the Courts".

Yes we know that and understand the Rule of Law but it's the law on which the Government relies is old. It is out of date. It fails to recognise the greater mobility of people now-days. It reflects on the critical financial situation back in the late 1940's when the only people who moved overseas were the rich and famous. Things have changed markedly since then. The present Pensions Minister Steve Webb said so, "The world has moved on and people's lives are much more global. People are more likely to work overseas and their parents may went to go an live with them in retirement. Should we penalise those who retire overseas to be with their children or should we say 'you've worked hard and paid hard. It's your pension; take it with you with our blessing?" That Hansard comment expressed his sentiments in 2004. Now in power as Minister he takes a totally opposite view; such hypocrisy!

Please email me at [email protected] and I will send you all the information and arguments that support our fight for social justice. Please go to www.telegraph.co.uk/frozenpensions/ and read all the arguments reported there. Our cause is now being supported by that paper.

Please write to your local MP and outline this misplaced parsimony by Britain for by maintaining the status quo Britain is discouraging tens of thousands from leaving to return home to India, the Caribbean, Bangladesh and Africa. This migration would save Britain £billions. The UK Government is being myopic and narrow minded, thinking they are saving a few quid off the "ring fenced" pension budget, about 0.7% of the pension budget and less that 0.1% of the total national budget, but they are ignoring the larger economic issue the potential savings on National Health services, free prescriptions, winter fuel subsidies and free bus passes that those thousands who would migrate back to their original homelands, if their pensions were indexed, will not require. Thanks for your interest in our dilemma and help us spread our message please. talk about this with your friends put them right on this issue. What the Government is doing is so un-British. It is out of character.

We'll pursue Britain's suspension from the Commonwealth until it practices what it preaches. Suspension will probably hurt Britain's standing in the world and possibly hurt its trade, all for a "few bob".

Jim Tilley; Hon Chairman British Pensions in Australia Inc www.bpia.org.au

Jendurham Sat 05-Oct-13 00:50:03

Can Britain be suspended from the Commonwealth? After all, the Queen is the head of the Commonwealth.
Would it not make the point if you all just left?

Possiejim Thu 10-Oct-13 22:19:29

That is a point to consider Jendurham . It is interesting that at this coming CHOGM, in Sri Lanka, Canada's PM Steven Harper has decided to opt out, sending a low level delegation. But I believe this is because of his view on the way in which Sri Lanka conducted and ended its own civil war, and has nothing to do with Britain ignoring the requirements of equality, non discrimination and fairness embedded in the Commonwealth Charter by freezing own citizens pensions in 47 Commonwealth nations to "save a few quid".
I'll try to discuss your suggestion with our Prime Minister, so that both Canada and Australia are missing from the coming CHOGM.

Riverwalk Fri 11-Oct-13 07:53:26

Possiejim you don't seriously think that the Australian PM would boycott the CHOGM on the narrow subject of pension inequality, do you? confused

There are probably more important issues for him to address.

Possiejim Fri 18-Oct-13 21:56:26

Riverwalk; I do not expect Tony Abbott to boycott CHOGM, which Steve Harper Canada's PM has done. I want Tony Abbott there to promote our suggestion about suspending the UK from the Commonwealth until they cease their unfair, unequal, discriminatory approach to pension indexing and change the policy to universally index all State pensions. In that way their policy will fall in line with the principles incorporated in the Commonwealth Charter and be comparable with State pension policy practiced by every other OECD country. Britain is completely out of step with the world with their present policy. We need to encourage all Grans in the UK to write to their local MP drawing attention to this issue, which is out of character with British principles of fair play and equality. We heard of David Cameron last year espousing "I've a passionate belief in equality for all". If he is true to his word he'd have this pension policy changed so that indexing is universal. So visit our website www.pensionjustice.org; learn about this issue and then write to your MP asking him/her to support Sir Peter Bottomley and Sir Roger Gale in their endeavours to remove clause 20 from the Pension Bill.

Email me please [email protected] for more information on this festering issue.

With respect to William Wilberforce and adapting his speech in Parliament in 1791, when fighting for the abolition of slave trading;

“ Never, never, will we pensioners desist till we have wiped away this scandal from the Statute books, released ourselves from the load of guilt, under which we at present labour, and extinguish every trace of this immoral pension policy, of which posterity, looking back to the history of these enlightened times, will scarce believe that it has been suffered to exist so long, a disgrace and dishonour to this country”.