#everydayageism

I read the report in the Independent and my heart sank - why can't I just keep doing what I'm doing?

I would have thought that most older people have better people skills - or a least are less likely to slouch around saying "Whatever". On the other hand some (DH?) will never develop people skills if they live to be 150!

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/communities-must-be-more-fun-for-the-elderly-to-combat-loneliness-says-age-uk-9579808.html

I think this works.
Swings for Oldies at bus stops, eh?

Just improving ordinary bus services might be an idea.

For many years I have made a monthly donation to Research Into Ageing.
A few years ago, it was subsumed into Age UK.

If this report, which to my mind is total b*ll*cks, is what they are spending my money on, I will be cancelling the standing order.

Here are some more gems from the report:

"Free places to come together
(community centres – with no charge for
room hire!).
Local high street shops offer up their
space for community groups to meet and have toilets available for older
people. "

Do older people really need this sort of positive discrimination whereby other age-groups have to pay for facilities and older people don't?
Why should local businesses, already struggling with business rates and competition from the supermarkets that local authorities have allowed to swamp the markets, be compelled to provide free facilities for older people?

JaneA And are local businesses etc likely to do that?

There are already free places to meet with no room hire - they are called cafes, and some of them supply excellent home baking (but that is not free)

I can't comment on what happens elsewhere but providing free facilities isn't uncommon in some countries. In Spain, down the road from where we lived, was the community open-air swimming pool. On my first visit to this full-sized pool, I asked the pool attendant how much to use the pool. He looked puzzled and said 'it is free, paid for by your rates'.

On the Island, there are several park-based cafes that run tea-dances for the over 60s and they are quite popular. At the Villa Marina, in Douglas, there is also a Friday night (I think it's Friday) dance night for anyone that enjoys ballroom/Latin American dancing.

One swimming pool, that I know of, offers a 'Silver Swim' where older people can enjoy the pool without the fear of being mowed down by torpedo swimmers and children; the fee to get in is greatly reduced for that session.

I don't see it as positive discrimination but more acknowledging that an older population require different leisure pursuits and, as they can often be a vulnerable group, cannot always afford to pay full price - this is a way of ensuring that they can still take an active part in some activities.

Exactly Elegran and we are going to one next Friday, aren't we?
But I doubt if Panis would welcome us if all we were going to do was natter all afternoon and not buy any food or

Hollydaze If businesses want to provide something that will increase their footfall and income, that's fine - just look at all the pubs that now provide live music, or have diversified into providing a good restaurant as well as traditional bars, and indeed the many that provide pensioners' meals at reduced prices. Incidentally I do not avail myself of such offers because I think I can afford to pay the going rate, like many other pensioners can.
My local bread shop now does coffee and has tables outside - enjoyed by the older residents, but also by the mothers before and after they have dropped off the children at school, which is as it should be, facilities for everyone, not artificially demarcated groups.

But it is the element of enforcement implied in the report which is to my mind both unpleasant and would add unnecessary layers of bureaucracy to already overburdened businesses.
The box ticker would be along to check that tables and chairs had been provided; then a bean-counter would want to know how many 'old' people had availed themselves of the facilities.
Then Environmental Health would come and inspect the toilets; and then someone from the business would be required to be a Vulnerable Person Protection Officer.
The cost of providing these facilities and all this regulation would be borne by the paying customers - is that fair? I don't think so.

The instances I have given janeainsworth are all provided by the local councils, not businesses.

Hollydaze Things that are provided by the council may free to the user, but they are not free to provide. Someone pays for them.

The council may be choosing to subsidise tea-dances for the over 60's at the expense of say, repairing pot-holes in the roads, or story-telling for young children at the local library.
But all these things have to be paid for.

But my point was that businesses, not councils, should not be compelled to provide community facilities.

janeainsworth

I am aware that the tax payer ultimately foots the bill but as it is a provision for tax payers, I don't see a problem with it.

I have never experienced story-telling at libraries - even from when I was a child and taken to the library on a regular basis.

I agree that it isn't the responsibility of local business to provide community facilities (although I believe some of the larger supermarkets already are - I know the Co-op does).

The stats show that older employers are less likely to go off sick.
B and Q took a bold step in embracing older job applicants on the basis they had more experience of DIY etc but I don't know of any other employers who have seen this particular light. In teaching the brutal fact is that the longer service you have the more you cost and school budgets are under pressure.I don't think this is agism. Heads would prefer to employ more experienced teachers if they could afford them. This is to do with politics and cutting public expenditure.
We hear a lot about younger brains being better. They are better when doing timed tests. They do not know more. We go to a pub quiz and it is noticeable that the general knowledge of the teams made up solely of young students are utterly lacking in general knowledge. Teams with over 50s will score maybe 14/20, teams with students (even a lot of students) 6/20..... but moving on to a proud OH boast. DH went back to university recently. He is in his mid 50s. He is doing a masters in a very difficult subject - it is all advanced maths and physics with lots of computing. He hadn't done any maths or computing for 30 years. he got the highest mark they ever had on the course for the exams and assignments.

Some of the worst attitudes I come across are from my mother, aged 90 in her rudeness & derision about other old people who aren't as active as she is.

JESS , he & you should be very proud, well done him!!

Gadabout

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation's report on minimum income standards, mentioned on that thread, refers to "........pensioners’ growing emphasis on social participation and ensuring that their needs are fully met. Today’s pensioners seem to be rejecting traditional self-denying attitudes associated with older people".

I think that's quite apposite - the generation that grew up in the 60s seem to have had the knack of making their mark and making society adapt to them, rather than them fitting in to society's norms.
I'm not sure we need these well-meaning souls to organise our lives for us - we'll just carry on doing things our way and for ourselves.

If we had an inclusive society that stopped segregating people by age group, we wouldn't need these separate services for each age group. As I said before many of the improvement suggested for old people, would be greeted with delight by all the other age groups in Society that would also benefit from them.

Most families consist of people of every age from the very young to the old who live and integrate We do not put benches in our gardens with older members specifically in mind, or if we do it is usually because they like the garden or enjoy watching birds, not just because they are old.

Why can society not work in a similar fashion?

Noticed 'Mumsnet' quoted again in the newspapers. Funny how whenever get the cutting edge surveys on Gransnet, nor do we get discussed in the papers in other but a patronising way.

More public ageism!

Well said, Jane. I think back to how my mum lived her last 20 odd years and my lifestyles and expectations are completely different. She wouldn't express political views, didn't want to initiate anything, was happy chatting to the neighbours or going to the Women's Guild evenings and would wait for my dad to drive her to visit family. A passive life in many respects and not that different from my grandmother's.

I'm not sure we need these well-meaning souls to organise our lives for us - we'll just carry on doing things our way and for ourselves.

What about those who have no-one to do things with?

'Britain has become “too busy” to find time for older people, the presenter and campaigner Esther Rantzen has claimed.

She said more than 100,000 calls have been received by The Silver Line helpline, which she set up six months ago.

The former presenter of That’s Life said the service, set up as a “ChildLine” for older people, was having a “transformational” effect on thousands and had highlighted a “huge and unmet need”.

Most callers lived alone and more than half, 53 per cent, said they had no one else to speak to other than the helpline, a survey found. Nearly half of callers often spent more than a day without talking to anyone, and more than one in 10 often spent more than a week without having a conversation.

Of the 100 callers questioned, 20 per cent said they were not in touch with their family or had no family. More than two thirds said they were reluctant to ask their families for help because they did not want to be a “burden.”

A think tank earlier this week urged the Government to do more to tackle loneliness amongst the over-65s who cannot use the internet.

Approximately four out of 10 people aged 65 or over do not have access to the internet at home, with more than five million never having used the internet, putting them at risk of isolation and loneliness, according to a report by the think tank.'

I have been informed by an MHK that this is a particular problem on the Island:

The report claimed one in 10 people are believed to make a visit to their GP because they are lonely.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/elderhealth/10859491/Esther-Rantzen-Britain-is-too-busy-to-speak-to-older-people.html

We probably have what you would call a passive life When. because that is the way we like it, we have done our bit in expressing views and initiating things (Sorry, I am not saying that you are finding fault with that - just expressing a view!). This has happened almost without us being aware, just because we have aged, not all that gracefully, I might say, and have had to slow down. We do not have any battles to fight, and I suppose we are in a state of 'I am all right jack" I feel for the younger people of today, and wonder what is in store for them.

Hollydaze If you read my post you will see that I wasn't referring to the present generation of 'elderly' people - I imagine, though am willing to be corrected, that the callers to Silverline are mainly aged 75+.

I was suggesting that the generation who grew up in the 60's (now aged 60+) are very different in attitude from older generations - more proactive, more computer-literate and more able to shape their lives in the way they choose. We are the ones who have questioned everything in our lives, from social values to authority in all its forms.
There's no reason why those attitudes shouldn't persist into old age.
Loneliness, anxiety and depression affect all age groups, not just the elderly.

I have often felt guilty about the way some of the 'baby boomer' generation have grown up, because I feel that I (or my generation) have allowed some things to happen, of which I am quite ashamed, although there was very little I could do about it, because life over the past fifty years or so has changed so dramatically, at an alarming rate. However, jane I wonder if I might take some of the credit for the fact that there are some 50-60 year olds now-a-days who are able to question what is happening in the world, because my generation was the one that told their children to 'go for it', and tried to provide the opportunities for that to happen.

Well of course you are right, Printmiss, and I think the 1944 Education Act changed many people's lives for the better. Also, society doesn't change overnight, but gradually evolves.
But I do think that there was a tipping point in the 60s when it suddenly became the norm, rather than the exception, to question and rebel against authority in a way that previous generations, and those following, haven't done.

If you read my post you will see that I wasn't referring to the present generation of 'elderly' people - I imagine, though am willing to be corrected, that the callers to Silverline are mainly aged 75+

No, I didn't see that in your post but I may have misread it. The article didn't state the ages of those callers (my brother maintains that whatever age someone is, it is always someone at least 10 years older that is considered old!). My mother is 78 and still goes to nightclubs! She goes off around the world at the drop of a hat - not all are as fortunate (in every respect) as she is. Your posts, as I read them, tended to address businesses and others paying for (for want of a better phrase) luxuries for the older generation.

Loneliness, anxiety and depression affect all age groups, not just the elderly.

I would agree with that but with the caveat that older people (I'm talking 55+) do not usually have the 'luxury' of being in a position to change their lives as much as the younger folks can who, in the main, have the prospect of employment, youth and health more on their side than many older people do.

My experience as a Home Visitor for Age UK was that the biggest cause of loneliness in old age is disability. For many people, particularly in rural areas, and I include my parents-in-law in this group, social life was on the street, you met neighbours and friends as you walked to and from the shop, at church, village social events, and on the bus. They were rarely invited indoors, that was family only.

Once you were house-bound your social life was gone, because social contacts were never invited into the house, so never called either. Most I met had supportive families, but unless they lived close they only saw them at weekends. Other problems arose when the older person did not admit to themselves, let alone anyone else just what problems they have. I once had to abort an Attendance Allowance application because the applicant told me about the problems she had but when I wrote them down and read them back to her, which I was obliged to do, promptly denied everything she said and claimed I had made it up!

We also must remember that some elderly people in their prime were not nice people, were not good parents and to a certain extent brought their problems on themselves. One elderly man, weeping for his wonderful wife and unvisited by his children I learned later terrorised his wife and children with his violence and had recently been banned from local pubs for threatening people with his walking stick. It is not surprising he was alone and unvisited.

I with several others was made redundant about three years ago and after several applications for jobs and three interviews it was very clear to me ( and made clear in one interview) that I was not going to be considered due to my age.
It seems to me that as soon as you turn a certain age you have lost your marbles and are treated very differently. I do not like it and feel quite sensitive to the terms and names also used for older people.
I started my own business on line and sell both here in the UK and globally.
Some think it is a little hobby! it is not and I am fully committed and love it. Just wish I had done it years ago.

As this thread has been resurrected, I thought I'd just let you know that I got the first volunteer position I mentioned above (my preffered choice) so withdrew from the second one! Just waiting for training now! So no ageism there - unless they are just desperate