Patriotic

Many Scots would never support England, but I've lived here for over 40 years and my sons are English born and bred, so I will support England as long as they're not playing against Scotland.

England, Wales, Australia, New Zealand.
(but I know many of the Welsh will not support England!).

Oh, and many thanks to absent grannie and mamie for their posts, fabulous

I love Britain, feel English and would not choose to live permanently in another country. I share the concerns others express about the dangers associated with nationalism, or over patriotic feelings. But, I support England, then Scotland, NI, Wales, Eire in any sporting activity. When we get kicked out (football springs to mind) I move on to supporting Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Germany - in that order. Sad, or what.

The thing is, there are lovely areas in almost every country you could mention, and hell holes in all of them as well. The trick is to live in one of the lovely ones if possible.Equals happiness, wherever you are.I love England, I was born here of English parents, and want to remain here[go on hols though obviously] but as Feetle says, we have no say in where we were born; we can however choose to leave if we want to.

absentgrandma Your comments really made me laugh - particularly the ones about cultural diversity and historic buildings/heritage.

You're right - nowhere is perfect and perhaps having a great sense of humour like yours helps to keep things in perspective.

Indeed absentgrandma
Maybe you have to leave to appreciate the good things.
I did start a list of things I don't like in England like traffic, overcrowding, conspicuous consumption, tattoos (though le tattooing seems to be catching on here), rudeness, sleb culture etc etc, but I didn't want to sound like a miserable old fart of an expat.....

Oh heck*Mamie*..... I've just read your list and applied it to where we both live now:

1.^Country pubs^ ..... unheard of, just male dominated tabac/bars which are in sharp decline(our last village bar closed 2 years ago)

2. Shopping...... customer service on a scale of 1 to 10..... -5, and the only shops open on Sundays are the baker's and the convenience store ( an oxymoron if ever I saw one!) and they close at 12 noon sharp.

3. Tolerance (though this seems a bit strained in places now).... the wearing of burka's in public now banned.

4. The richness of the language and the fact that it grows and changes..... the old fossils in the Academie Francaise make sure the language never evolves... word like 'Le Weekend ' send 'em into a tail-spin

5. Cultural diversity (especially of food)... I've just heard there is an Asian food shop in a town 20 kgs from me.... I'm almost hyper-ventilating with excitement at the prospect of a whole morning spent tracking down some lemon-grass.

6. Sense of humour especially self-deprecation and irony....... happy to call us 'Rost Boeufs' but but totally at a loss as to why some rude 'Anglais' call them 'Frogs

7.^Domestic architecture (not all obviously)^...... little pink bungalows springing up all over the countryside.

8.^Pragmatism^.......a trip to the local 'prefecture' to appply for/renew an official document will disprove that.

9. Gardens and gardening...... improving but still a long way to go. My OH seems to have become the village guru on English lawms and borders.

10.^ Care for historic buildings and heritage^........ one day a year in September is dedicated to opening heritage sites to the general public, rest of the year they are closed.... in rural areas at least. Tourist areas may be fortunate enough to find a stately pile open on public holidays.

So why are we here? Sometimes I wonder, but nowhere is perfect

Sorry.. italics symbol doesn't seem to work at times!

Yes indeed J52, though I am looking out on a Normandy that is just as lush and green. But then I do only live 130 miles as the crow flies from my birthplace in Surrey.
It was just a list for discussion, though. Other ideas welcome.

You've pretty well summed it up Mamie. I also think that Britain's countryside is a welcome sight when returning from abroad. Especially if we've been to somewhere that lacks the amount of rain that we have. (A mixed blessing) and although it might have interesting flora and fauna, the lush green of Britain is lovely. X

A good list MAMIE !!

Have been thinking about this overnight. I am not sure about patriotism, which seems to involve a bit of my country right or wrongness, but I came up with a list, in no particular order, of the things that I value most about England (can only talk about England really).
1. Country pubs
2. Shopping
3. Tolerance (though this seems a bit strained in places now)
4. The richness of the language and the fact that it grows and changes
5. Cultural diversity (especially of food)
6. Sense of humour especially self-deprecation and irony
7. Domestic architecture (not all obviously)
8. Pragmatism
9. Gardens and gardening
10. Care for historic buildings and heritage.

J52 Not a problem but I just thought it was worth pointing out in case divergent points of view emerge at some point or someone accuses me of something untoward. As if...

On the whole I love the UK and am happy living here. That's not to say I think everything about it is perfect - but then it wouldn't be anywhere else either.

I enjoy going abroad - mostly for the better weather and to see different landscapes, eat different foods, etc. etc. I suppose it could be argued that if people were ultra-patriotic they would holiday here and thus contribute to this economy rather than someone else's.

I don't really like that way of looking at things - I think it's nice to share things round a bit. I'm not really keen on the idea of patriotism if it involves a notion of superiority over and competition with other countries.

But I think it is only courteous to respect and make some positive contribution towards whatever country you are living in - whether it is the country you were born in, or one that you have chosen to move to.

absentgrandma I thought you were posting about the area where I live until you mentioned the glorious summers! Although we have had some good weather this year until August.
The SE of England is not typical of the whole UK - not everywhere is depressing and a terrible place to be retired.

Sorry Absent for mistakingly confusing you with Absentgrandma. X

It's still true, many other nationalities can't understand our penchant for self-deprecation. I wonder when boasting became a bad thing? Probably back in Cromwell's day.

Here is what Orwell said about English patriotism in 1941. Perspicacious of him, what?

Could I just point out that absent and absentgrandma are different posters although we both live outside the UK.

Absent - I agree, with homes in England and Scotland, when it comes to Rugby we are torn. If we are watching our home team or England, when in England we support them. If in Scotland it's the National team or Edinburgh. The problem comes when Leicester Tigers play Edinburgh or England play Scotland! No solution there!

When it comes to the Six Nations, I am shamelessly nationalistic! Patriotism has nothing to do with it.

My most difficult time comes in Febuary when the Six Nations championship takes place..... oh heck..... do I support England, France, Ireland(I'm half Irish) or Italy (half Italian)? As my DD says ' It's called keeping your options open, mother'. In this rugby-mad part of France we were treated like royalty when England won the World Cup in 2003..... oh how I basked in the reflected glory!

ABSENT, well there is one here , posting even as we speak !!

I think after nearly ten years, that some things in England are starting to seem alien and France is feeling more familiar. In the first five years I would not have felt that and we were clear then that we did not want to grow very old and die in France. Now, I don't think it bothers us so much. The roots are going deeper, even though we know that we will need a smaller property that is easier to manage.
I like Spain, my son, DiL and grandchildren are there, but I still cheer when I cross back into France.
Both France and Spain have landscapes every bit as varied and beautiful as the UK, though.