Bad language!

For goodness' sake! Just the sight of certain words in print is a red rag to some of the bulls on this thread! It's not a rude article. It is an academic article about the origin of words now regarded as smutty. Language changes all the time and will continue to do so. Why take offence at this non-provocative study?

You can't lump all swearing into one category. What I can't stand is those people whose every sentence contains a swear word, and unforgivsbly, usually the same one or two words repeatedly.

Whereas the odd expletive, chosen and used aptly, works.

I did Canterbury Tales at school and the nuns edited it before we saw it!

I am surprised that those who condemn blasphemy did not pick etheltbags up on "I just say 'oh heck' or 'oh my god'."

"oh my god!!" - obviously blasphemy!

"Heck" is a corruption of "Hell". Well, that's an alternative, so it's OK, but we know what the original was. We know too that "bloody" is a corruption of swearing "by our lady" - the Virgin Mary. That is still a taboo word but the blasphemy part has now been forgotten.

I've not read that article, must look it up.

I don't mind swearing if there is just cause, I'm not the one being sworn at and there are no children in earshot.

I used to be a very repressed person (even more than now) and I never swore but then I never felt any strong negative emotions either (well obviously I did but I internalised them). The first time I felt anger I was having a heart attack. Then a friend taught me the value of the harsh sounds in some swear words like the 'ck' in 'f*ck'.

DH has olive skin. When he was a boy, a neighbour's son kept calling him Asian. Now Asian isn't an offensive word but the context was meant to be insulting and so it became offensive. DH finally thumped him (as boys did in those days). His mum stormed around to his house and when she heard the whole story she thumped him too .

I suppose what I'm trying to say it that swearing in in the ear of the beholder.

When I was having a spinal block a few weeks ago, in preparation a very cold substance was sprayed on my back. It was like plunging into icy water and took my breath away.

I yelled out an involuntary 'God!'. I was relieved I hadn't said fck instead because I do use that word a bit too much.

But, now I am wondering which of the two options is the most offensive.

I have a book called "The Lure of the Limerick" which has plenty of ripe words in it - it is very funny and very clever indeed. I am not offended!

I think the words in the article are only regarded as smutty by people who have smutty minds. If used in non-smutty ways they are just as good as their 'polite' (usually French) alternatives.

It's how words are used that matters.

I find the article informative, serious, and very funny in places! Interesting.

To discuss the subject at all, you can't avoid the words...I save the words for extreme situations - like when I broke my wrist, when I needed really strong words!

Another classic with down-to -earth language is Pepys Diaries. I don't think you can get the un-expurgated version now, and the original was in Pepys' private code.

I've got the Latham and Matthews version of S Pepys. I was having a look in the glossary and there is very little in there which is rude. A couple of interesting things:

Pintle (penis)
Shit in his hat and then clap it on his head (self explanatory)
Windfucker, (a talkative braggart - my favourite)

Petallus - how many volumes are there in that edition?
The version I read, in the '90s, was in 6 editions plus an extra one with explanatory notes. From the local library.

I hate bad language. I wont watch any film with it in.

Triciaf there are nine volumes plus a companion of names and words.

They are only words usually alternatives for bodily excreta or sexual descriptions and so should not really worry us as they all happen! - it really is the context in which they are used that is important.

petallus, thanks for this useful information. I don't possess these volumes - maybe will put them on wish list for next Christmas!

petallus love the hat one!

I guess that is where we get Windbag?

Elegran I didn't know 'heck' came from 'hell', I've always thought it was a corruption of "A hex on you".

Excellent article! Thank you, Lilygran!

And, picking up on the assumption that a "nice" private nursery will shield a child from unpleasantness, I can only laugh. I have met quite a few students, coming into my comprehensive school's Sixth Form (or rather, trying to get in in latter years) from twee little private schools, who were the most obnoxious, snobbish and ill educated young people I had ever met.

The article is interesting.
As for swearing today, it's 2015, not 1950. Get over it.

Was anyone watching Newsnight on the 50th anniversary of the 9PM watershed?

Laura Kuenssberg turned to the camera with a mischievous look on her face and let rip with a tirade of four letter words. It's a pity I can't find it on you tube, it was a scream.

Sorry that some of you don't like my comments about wanting my DGD to mix with well behaved kids. I really think that professional people such as teachers would teach their kids to be better behaved than the local yobs. Maybe Im wrong. When I was at school the better off kids would not look at the 'rougher element' of which I was considered one.

I determined to 'better myself and I worked hard as I got older, read good books, went to evening classes and eventually despite being a widow helped my DD through to MA level. My husbands family considered themselves very middle class and looked down on me because everyone in the family was either a professional or a manager and at that time I was working in a fairly grotty office. No swearing was allowed and the tv was turned off if anyone kissed and I assumed that this was middle class behaviour. I learned never to show my feelings, I copied my late MIL and kept a stiff upper lip. I now despise people who show emotion in public. After all what good does it do if you swear, it does not help the situation. If you hit your thumb with a hammer and swear, it doesn't hurt less than if you say 'ow'.

I am being really honest about how I see things and I always try to behave in a socially acceptable way. Can anyone see any wrong in wanting to better myself.

Nothing wrong about that at all ethel

However in trying to better yourself don't lose sight of tolerance for the foibles of others. No matter how well educated you are, what level of society you aspire to, there are other values that define us.

Ive started another thread on this subject but what do you mean by the 'other values that define us'. ??? Anya

If I could only find my copy of the original stage play, Educating Rita, I'd be able to refer you to the scene in which Rita remarks that the educated class got away with casual profanities all the time whereas the working classes which she came from were much more prudish. Times have, of course, changed and such profanities are heard from the mouths of children in all kinds of school playgrounds - including those in the more affluent areas of South Manchester and Cheshire!