Smacking children

I'm very sorry for people who experienced beatings unnecessarily or on a regular basis as children.

But there is a world of difference between the above and growing up in a loving and supportive home where an occasional smack on the bum also happened. My daughter and son-in-law are currently living in our house. I was singing and dancing in the kitchen the other night whilst cooking, my son-in-law looked a bit bemused and my daughter said with a big smile "This is how I grew up". My SIL on the other hand, grew up in a very conservative household where the children lived in fear of their extremely strict parents, despite there never having been any smacking or hidings.

I also grew up in a loving home (but I recall my mother once threatening to bang our heads together when my brother and I had been bickering for hours). I was a complete innocent about violent relationships and therefore walked into one with my eyes closed (but got out of it again). The point that I am making is that people get involved in damaging relationships sometimes too because having grown up without any experience of violence, they are "babes in the wood".

What I find worrying (in addition to hitting children) is the title of the bill:

'The vote will be part of the amended Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence (Wales) Bill tabled by Julie Morgan AM.'

Why is it about 'Violence against Women', that sounds discriminatory to me. Surely by now everyone realises that violence against men is as bad? I read last week that 40% of cases of domestic abuse are by women on men. Assuming that fewer men report abuse, which seems likely, then I can only assume that there is at least equal violence or possible more against men.

I was smacked regularly as a child by my mother, who never seemed to need an excuse. She took put her frustrations on me. My father never laid a hand on me. I, in my turn, was very hard on my son when he was young and had a tendency to be wilful, mostly because his father, being a soldier, was often not around. To this day I regret it bitterly and we have spoken about it and I told him how sorry I am. He said "but I always knew you loved me." Smacking a child for the slightest misdemeanour saps their confidence. It did with me, and to some extent, it has with him, though he is a lovely man and has done very well for himself. My GS is never smacked.

I smacked my son once out of anger and tiredness and it still haunts me; he was about 3 and I was trying to get him and DD bathed and dressed to go and pick DH from station. I was so traumatised I never did it again. If another person hit your child it would be assault, so why is it ok for a parent to do it? Violence against anyone is wrong irrespective of their age or gender is wrong. But then again, going slightly of this subject, I have just commented on the posting about the Oxfordshire report and said that I would likely have used violence against any people who treated my daughter in the way these girls have been treated.

It used to be quite common to hear an adult say to a child' 'Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry for'. My grandfather used to take his belt off to his daughters. I was regularly smacked at home and at school. I smacked one of my DS once. My DGS are never smacked. But I think there are worse things than a slap. I have heard verbal abuse of children in public by their parent/career that has made my blood run cold. I have promised myself that next time, instead of exchanging shocked glances with other adults present, I will actually say something to the parent.

I wonder which is worse, smacking or verbal abuse to children? When a mother says nasty things about her husband and his relations to the child, throws away or breaks anything from them etc.

I know of a child who was being smacked by his mother and the father reported it to the SW who went to see her and she admitted it. The SW then asked the child if Mummy smacked him and he replied "No, but Daddy does" which was not true but he was so scared of his mother he said what she wanted to hear. I think that kind of emotional abuse might be worse that the odd smack on the bottom but neither is acceptable.

Thank goodness my children were usually fairly well behaved so I only occasionally gave a slap, eg to stop them doing something dangerous. One time when eldest was about 4 he was fooling round jumping on the beds I was tidying, so I pushed him off. Resulted in a black eye - people asked him what happened and of course he said "my Mammy did it." If it happened nowadays the SW would have been round to see me.
The most provoking behaviour, imo, is cheekiness from teenagers, which could lead to a slap, but it does no good at that age.
The main reason I would be against an outright ban would be because it would encroach even more on parental rights.

My Mother never smacked me it was always 'wait until your father gets home', as I never saw him during the week due to his working hours, I would be punished by him for some wrong I had committed perhaps on the Monday, on a Friday evening or Saturday morning.
He had a very hard hand.
I have never smacked my children, well once DD got a slap in the face, but as she was 18 and a lot taller than me well,,,,, she does admit she deserved it.
DS1 had severe behavioural problems, I used to chase him upstairs with a slipper, I never caught him and do not know what I would have done if I had.
My Mother has always told people I was never smacked, my comment is always,' then we must have had a lodger'.

The only time I smacked DS2 was when he ran across a road in front of a Volvo. My reaction was purely out of shock and fear. He never did it again nor did I. I don't know if - at 42 - he remembers the incident but I do and haven't regretted it.

" the main reason I would be against an outright ban would be because it would encroach even more on parental rights'" Sorry Tricia F but where and how does being a parent give you the right to assault someone else in this case your child.

Smacking is entirely out of fashion and modern parents are horrified by it.
"Smack" does not mean beat up a child, injure or assault them. It means an instant correction of unacceptable behaviour, just as all mother animals do to their young. I smacked occasionally and always felt very guilty afterwards but I don't believe it does any harm.

May I ask you apricot... Would you be happy if your husband, a friend or someone in the street smacked you if you did something they did not like or found unacceptable ?

Child A hits Child B and takes away the toy that Child B is playing with – behaviour that most of us would regard as unacceptable. Mother A hits Child A and takes away the toy. That would work…

We do all sorts of things to, on behalf of and for children that we do not with adults. They are not adults and however charming they might be, they are ignorant, incompetent and often quite weird. Yours is a false analogy, ginny. Thousands of us have grown up into responsible, non-violent adults even though we were frequently 'hit' by adults. This didn't teach us that violence is right, it taught us not to run out into traffic, not to be deliberately disruptive or destructive and a number of other valuable lessons. But as apricot says, smacking is entirely out of fashion. Most of us have moved on.

If you always felt 'very guilty' after smacking your children, apricot, why did you carry on doing it? I only smacked DD once, on her bum, when she had a temper tantrum in the local post office and I was so horrified by my behaviour that I never, ever did it again.

DD has never smacked her children either.

Smack is just another word for hit and to hit someone is to assault them. To say you smack your child to correct them is just an excuse because you can't or won't correct them in a more acceptable way. it's lazy parenting. I didn't smack my children because I was traumatised by my mother smacking me. My daughter was traumatised by her father smacking her . She also has never smacked her children.

'Smack' puts a more acceptable word on 'hit' .Earlier in the thread I used 'hit' and got the response 'if you put it like that'- I did 'put it like that ', it was my intention.
You hit those smaller than you- when the child is big enough to fight back you don't! That should tell you something.

I hope I never assaulted my children, but I did smack them occasionally - I think there's definitely a big difference between the two terms, mainly in the purpose behind them.
"Lazy parenting" - possibly , but which parents can claim never to take short cuts? Or lose their temper with their child? We're all learners when we start, and most children grow up into reasonable adults in spite of their parent's mistakes.
I think there's a legal definition for assault on a child:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home
Also as I wrote earlier, some children are more sensitive to any punishment than others.

Lilygran I'm sure you are right that even though children were smacked they grew into decent people as do those who were not. Therefore I cannot see why anyone should use violence to make a point or to obtain a result. There are plenty of other effective ways of disciplining a child.

I remember being smacked twice. Once when I was about three and bit my father on the arm (he was talking to my sister and not me) I think he slapped me to make me let go! The other time was when I climbed back into the bath after my mum had dried me. She left a white hand print on my bare and pink back side. We laughed at that.

I don't approve of smacking but at odd times I can see how a stressed parent may just lash out. Not good but we are human.

IMO far worse is the wait until your father gets home planned smacking.

What is very difficult is the question about prosecuting parents. We used to get reports from the odd teenager going into school in tears after being slapped in a breakfast time strop with parents. As long as no obvous injury is caused where the brelationship with a parent is basically sound it would not be helpful to prosecute when both parties can discuss what happened and acknowledge calmly how this situation arose.
If it is a regular occurance that is very different.

As for the NSPCC Stop campaign, I suggest that more frequent short adverts giving practical advice on how to cope positively with the stresses of parenting might be more useful.
Perhaps some aimed at parents of screaming colicky babies at 7 pm in the evenings or children who will not stay in their beds.

The NSPCC could try that strategy rather than pushing the "threats" of prosecution.

Threats of prosecution - another reason why I'm glad I'm not trying to raise children in the UK at the moment. Talk about Big Brother is watching you!
Apricot wrote that smacking is entirely out of fashion at the moment and modern parents are horrified by it - I didn't know that. My grandchildren all live abroad, apart from one who is grownup.

I didn't smack habitually, just a few times over 20 years, and I felt guilty every time. My children grew up happy, loving and well-behaved despite (not because of) what some of you call "assault".
My mother never smacked us but was constantly critical, sarcastic and bad-tempered. I'd have preferred a few slaps. Should it be illegal to moan at your kids when you're be tired, miserable and at the end of your tether?

Hardly the same thing !

Clicked too soon.

Of course children need to be ' told off' Being constantly critical sarcastic and bad tempered is entirely different and probably just as harmful. I doubt you would have preferred a slap though as it seems they would have been given frequently.

I don't agree that what I did to my children (about twice in 18 years) is assault. I didn't even raise my hand.

On another note, there's little worse than having to listen** (usually speaking very loudly, so that everyone knows what a good parent they are) to a parent trying to reason with an out of control child. **e.g. on a train. Not suggesting people smack assault their children on a train, just saying.