Interesting Quote

Of being labelled racist, sexist etc etc.

Any of you planning to watch the programme on thursday by Trevor Phillips?

It is going to be explained on there, what I am trying to say, apparently.

And actually whilst you 'PChas gone too far' posters are at, perhaps you could give examples using disability? When I think what attitudes, language and the discrimination against disabled people used to be like - it's not perfect now but it's much better and I personally experience the improvements daily . And if you want to take about fascism in this context - think about the thousands and thousands of disabled people exterminated by Hitler just because they were disabled - you and PDJ don't know the meaning of the word

Oh God. Here we go. "This relates to poor me".

That post Jingle is beyond despicable . And where the fuck is the 'poor me'?

Why do you have to make a discussion personal to you? Yes, ok. Mention it once perhaps, if you have to. But don't overdo it.

Partly because of the way disabled people are treated today I am able to lead a rich, varied, useful and interesting life. I am able to earn an extremely good income in addition to my various pensions. I dont focus on the things I can't do although some of those make me sad sometimes - especially when it affects what I can do with my dgc.

So it's ok to post about things we know nothing about but not what we do? Goodness me!

I dont know of any instances personally, where pc has gone too far relating to disability GrannyTwice. None at all.

Thank you soon - but do you get my point that the way PC is rubbished by some is far too sweeping?

It could be I suppose. I hadnt thought about specifics, and wasnt meaning specifics. But I take your point.
In future, perhaps I myself, can say the same things, but say not in relation to disability as far as I know.

I think ginger haired people have the worst of it. They need all the PC protection they can get.

Eleothan it was your reference to 'those who can no longer go to football matches and shout racist comments' that prompted my remark about chavs and yobs.

That does conjure up a certain stereotypical image does it not? Football is often seen as a typically working class sport frequented by a certain type of person.

I think this is an important point. It is not just uneducated working class types who are racist though they may not be so adept at hiding their prejudices.

petallus I agree with you there.

soontobe I think there are a number of reasons why so many scandals have been brushed under the carpet. It might be a popular - and convenient - notion in some quarters to blame "political correctness" for inaction. I actually think that the continual ridiculing of the idea that language should reflect principles of respect and inclusiveness tends to reinforce discriminatory behaviour and practices.

In many of the scandals we have heard about, those in dereliction of their duties were quick to try and deflect their failings onto someone else. In the Hillsborough tragedy, for instance, rather than admit to making basic errors in crowd control, the police concocted a narrative - based on negative stereotypes - in which the crowd were responsible for the tragedy. In the Rotherham and other similar scandals, the children involved were viewed by some, and in particular the police, as "bad apples". The inquiry discovered that these girls were spoken of in derogatory terms and were treated as if they were responsible for their abuse and exploitation.

There is also some evidence to suggest that several inquiries involving powerful people were "shut down" at a very high level and those making the allegations were warned to back off.

None of these things are to do with "political correctness". In fact they demonstrate an absolute disregard for the notion of respect and equality of treatment.

I actually think that the continual ridiculing of the idea that language should reflect principles of respect and inclusiveness tends to reinforce discriminatory behaviour and practices

It may to a certain extent. Though not exactly sure how.
But there are now numerous people in numerous places of society saying that they have felt the need to not say anything, when they know they should have spoken up or spoken out.

Never mind. Wait for the programme.

Well as someone once said 'they would say that wouldn't they?'

I dont see why?

soontobe It could be argued that they would say it because, using the Rotherham example, what sounds better:

The reason you and your colleagues didn't do anything about vulnerable girls as young as 11 being groomed, deliberately hooked on drugs, terrorised and sexually exploited by vicious criminal gangs was because:

(a) "Political correctness" meant that you and all the other professionals you worked with were living under a culture of "political correctness" and you believed that your personal and professional integrity would be at risk if you raised concerns - and in any event, even if you did, nothing would be done.

Or one, or a combination of, the following reasons:

(b) You weren't aware that a child under 16 cannot legally be considered to have given consent and you were of the opinion that these girls who got drunk, took drugs and hung around older Asian men were promiscuous and had willingly entered into a sexual relationship with these men.

(c) Your department did not have the resources to deal with complex matters of this nature and could barely manage with the ordinary day-to-day workload, so you chose to ignore the problem.

(d) Unlike for some crimes, there were no targets for crimes relating to child exploitation so you did not wish to waste your time and energy pursuing matters that would not benefit your own performance record or that of your force.

The linked report in The Telegraph gives full details of the way in which concerns that were raised by parents and other individuals were ignored. There was a reference to fear of being called racist but, given the scale of the problem and the clear evidence of serious crimes being committed, I personally feel it is a pretty feeble excuse and one that is unprovable.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11057622/Rotherham-child-sexual-exploitation-Victims-raped-beaten-and-doused-in-petrol-if-they-threatened-to-tell.html

I havnt got time to answer all that post at this point.

But you are dismissing everyone, up and down the country who express fears of being called racist?

Of course Eleo isn't- what she explained ( much more eloquently than me) is that fear of being called racist is a very convenient excuse when the real reason is that you are misogynist/classist/idle/selfish

Well said GrannyTwice. As ever, Eloethan summarises this so well.

I would like to see what Eleothan says. No one can answer on behalf of her unless they actually are her.

If the summary of Eleothan's post is as GrannyTwice says, then that means that she is probably dismissing thousands or even hundreds of thousand of people saying the same thing? The fear of being called racist?

You can only guess that someone who says they were afraid of being called racist is using it as an excuse.

I can see how it could very well be true that people held back from saying what they really thought.

It will be interesting to see what Trevor Phillips has to say.