Transgender women and GN

My DH and I share the same loo and shower! When we go on holiday with friends we do not set up M/F bathrooms etc!

More and more pubs/ cafes are moving to having one set of cloakrooms/loos for men/women. This stops that ludicrous situation of a queue of women waiting for a cubicle whilst men do not! Now everyone waits in line

Sadly those men give all men a bad name- so men do not splash it all about, and would clear up if they did splash a bit my accident- I am happy to say. And do resent being made to feel like a dirty paria re toilets and sharing, by some.

And some men wouldn't be comfortable with sharing, either. They seem to be quite happy splashing about in their urinals without fear of censure!

Good points Trisher. But some women are really obsessed with not sharing toilets with men, even those they know well and trust.

How does a separate ladies loo protect children? This implies that only men are liable to assault children.In fact of course it would be much more protective for boys and young men if all toilets were used by both sexes. It would also mean mothers out with boys don't have the difficult decision to take about the age they allow their son to use the gents on his own (ditto fathers and daughters).

A good question. Out of my 3 friends, 2 would be allowed in female WC- nobody would notice the 1st one, as she looks absolutely like a woman, the 2nd would but would be stared at, and perhaps insulted (when I think back, she was insulted by the other expat when she spoke to her when coming out of toilet) and the 3rd would defintiely be disturbing to some, and may result in a complaint made.

I don't think it's ludicrous to expect separate ladies' and gents' loos/changing rooms, not least for the protection of children and vulnerable people of all ages.

My opinion regarding the transgender issue is that anyone who has committed to living as a man or a woman should be able to use the facilities designated for that sex.

Whenever they like. I find the idea that loos and changing rooms can only cater for one sex ludicrous. And I have used a gents, when the queue at the lady's at a service station was huge some friends and I went into the gents.

I'm just wondering at what stage would you think it permissible for transgender people to use female loos or changing rooms.

No- it is interesting jane. I am always up for an interesting discussion- and find it very sad that some at times turn a discussion into an argument. It really does not have to- we can agree to disagree, exchange, debate- and sometimes see each other's point of view- and sometimes continue to disagree, and that is fine.

As said, all 3 cases I know are so different- 1 is young and you would never ever guess, one is now early 50s and it is quite obvious, although she is officially a woman and lives and dresses like a woman, and the 3rd left it too late, and is still very much a man officially and physically, but not emotionally, psychologically and chooses to be sexually active.

If they have had a full sex change surely they are male or female.
Apparently transgender is a proper word, and is interchangeable with transsexual, and means that someone has 'an internal experience of gender identity that is different from most other people', as opposed to intersex people who have anatomy that is not typically male or female.
You can read more here

I bet you wish you'd never started this thread now Gj!

Actually, those friends were not real friends but other local expats- and no, we have not fallen out over it- but I've kept my distance since then.

As said, the fist name of the two who have had the full reversion sex change are now definitely female and they are definite 'she/her' - no hesitaiton there. More difficult for the one who left it too late- is now still a male but clearly feels like a female- it is a difficult in-between stage with no real solution, and s/he has to try and accept this.

However, the question was to absent. who said 'transgender' is a stupid word- and what she would consider appropriate as a word to describe people who have had a full sex change.

And not ask them what they want to be called?

Perhaps the clue is in what name they call themselves.

If they want to talk of what has happened in the past, that is up to them. If they just want to be what they have chosen, without explanations and post-mortems, that is up to them too.

If the man/woman is a friend, have you asked him/her?
His/her choice I would say.

As regards your friends who were so rude, are they still friends of yours?

See what you mean - so what word would you use? Woman or man as soon as process is over (the interim period is quite long) as if nothing has happened in the past? (why not... just discussing).

Whatever has been going on?

Transgender is such a stupid word. Gender is a linguistic concept; sex is a biological concept.

Having got that off my chest, I would add that I cannot imagine how awful it must be to be trapped in what feels like the body of the wrong sex. It must be a huge step to undertake the surgery and hormone therapy required to make the body match the person inside and applaud the courage of anyone who has done so.

Finally, I have never seen anyone on Gransnet mock someone who has undergone this transformation and hope I never do.

Yes Merlot, I got it wrong as I quickly scanned the thread, acknowledged it, apologised even. OK.

I think there is a world of difference between making a joke about someone having a "Sex change" because a poster got a pronoun wrong and mocking someone who is transgender, which is completely unacceptable. As far as GN goes, sometimes it is easy to tell what gender the person who is posting is and sometimes it isn't, so knowing if someone is transgender is virtually impossible. And anyway I can't see that it matters. Interesting and amusing points of view are what we need never mind who is posting them,

Oh heck!! I've just come on to this thread and can't believe what I'm reading.

It was a JOKE!!

When somebody said the thread was going to be deleted I was about to post, 'Don't do it until absent wakes up or we'll never know the truth!' Then the phone went so I didn't.

Saved by the bell.

T'other thread's not been deleted either........ Doubly now....

absent? Cross gender?! Flip me! That's a new one!

How a person identifies themselves with regards to a) sexuality and b) gender is for the individual to state. It is who they are. Ones gender and sexual orientation is not a choice but a fact of being!

It must be very hard for families and close friends to adjust to having a child, thought to be of one gender and then discovering they are in fact the opposite gender. It must be hugely difficult for the individual too. I cannot imagine what the emotional pain might be.

So he's a he then, gj ?