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Refugees

(856 Posts)
Katek Fri 28-Aug-15 08:32:59

I could hardly believe it when I looked at the news on my phone this morning to discover that 70 people had died in the back of the lorry in Austria. It's appalling, how can one human being allow this to happen to another?

Ana Fri 28-Aug-15 21:12:43

How can they leave, and then go back and fight without living there, soontobe?

You've said this before - what does it mean, seriously?

Judthepud2 Fri 28-Aug-15 21:42:29

The refugees who are putting their lives at risk must be so desperate in their own countries. So many of them are from countries that are being ripped apart by terrible civil wars. They are just trying to find a better life. God help them. shock

petra Fri 28-Aug-15 22:09:49

Soontobe. By these 'Badly behaved people' are you referring to Isis, the Taliban, the Eritrean government?
Is badly behaved the worst description you can come up with for these evil bastards.

petra Fri 28-Aug-15 22:17:16

Ana. I think Soontobe has been watching too many action films. You know the ones where the heros jump out of helicopters, kill a few baddies, fly out again. Sorted.

soontobe Fri 28-Aug-15 22:22:52

Yes petra. I can only judge behaviour.

Ana. Perhaps not reside there explains it better. So they would be like any other soldier who went and fought there.

Ana Fri 28-Aug-15 22:23:13

'The badly behaved people could fight each other' - honestly, I can't believe someone is that naive...

petra Fri 28-Aug-15 22:36:27

Soontobe. So who's army would these refugees be fighting for. Baring in mind that they have to get status in a country, let alone join that countries army.

petra Fri 28-Aug-15 22:38:23

'The badly behaved people could fight each other' like my DGC today.

soontobe Fri 28-Aug-15 22:50:21

Same sort of the thing as the Ghurkas?

Katek Fri 28-Aug-15 23:06:34

Do they parachute back in and join the resistance Soon? That sort of negates them leaving in the first place.

NotTooOld Fri 28-Aug-15 23:07:30

I agree with Durhamjen, that is the way it works in most refugee situations. The men leave in an attempt to find a better life and if they succeed they send for their families. When you consider the journey they have to make, it makes sense for the young, fit men to be the ones to go. Obviously it is no fun for the women left behind to look after children and old people but then neither is a trip across the Med on a leaky boat. The point about 'why don't they stay and fight for their country' which someone makes above is not valid because many of these men have already served their time in the army, particularly in Eritrea.

I do think we have to differentiate between refugees and economic migrants. Lindsay Hillson (I think that's right) on channel 4 news tonight said she had found that most of the migrants are economic ones, not refugees. She may have been speaking of a specific route because obviously many of the poor souls we see on our screens certainly are refugees escaping from tyranny in their own countries. She went on to say that the whole thing is total chaos and no-one is really taking responsibility for anything.

I don't know what the answer is but someone has to come up with something soon. Going after the traffickers makes the most sense but that line of action does not improve the actual situation in these countries. My personal view is that the west should never have interfered in the first place, upsetting the status quo that had existed for centuries, albeit an undemocratic status quo. Democracy is not a 'one size fits all'.

Anniebach Fri 28-Aug-15 23:08:20

Jane10, how do you think these men are going to get arms ? Who will train them? Do you really believe they can find guns, bombs etc and the enemy will agree to a cease fire whilst these men form an army and train?

NotTooOld Fri 28-Aug-15 23:11:31

I just love that phrase 'the badly behaved people', it's a bit like saying Hitler was 'a very naughty boy.'

Ana Fri 28-Aug-15 23:11:47

The Ghurkas? Are you serious, soontobe? shock

I'm amazed at your ignorance, please get a reality check angry

durhamjen Fri 28-Aug-15 23:18:39

At least they have managed to round up some traffickers now after today's atrocities.
It makes you wonder why they did not do it earlier.

Alea Fri 28-Aug-15 23:19:15

Correct me if I am wrong but I understand there are Ghurka units in the British, Nepalese and Indian armies. We see them mostly as part of our armed forces and they have played a massive in WWII as well as subsequent conflicts in which the UK was involved.
I don't see the relevance of referring to them in this context.

rosequartz Fri 28-Aug-15 23:22:00

djen I am not convinced by the argument that the men can send for their womenfolk and children once they become settled, unless of course their families are already safe in refugee camps. To be left behind in the horror that is Syria must be terrifying for women and children with no man to look out for you.
And the threat comes from not just one faction.

This is another horror story - the role of these traffickers is sickening.

Anniebach Fri 28-Aug-15 23:27:03

What on earth has the Gurkhas to do with this ?

Why assume all these men are married ?

NotTooOld Fri 28-Aug-15 23:33:26

Not necessarily married but with parents, aunts, cousins? Mind you, remember the hoo-hah about immigrants being given extra benefits to send 'home' to their families? Many people in the UK resent/resented that. I don't know if it has been stopped.

Yes, what has all this to do with the Gurkhas? Have we been infiltrated by Joanna Lumley?

durhamjen Fri 28-Aug-15 23:40:36

They do not live like we do, rose. They are not just left in their own homes far from extended families.
If they have to move away from their villages many of them will be in refugee camps which are not very savoury places anyway, but better than staying in Syria. From Syria, many of them have gone to Turkey. The men then go the rest of the way to Europe to find somewhere to live, then send for their families.
They do not have £5000 for each member of their family to pay the traffickers.

rosequartz Fri 28-Aug-15 23:40:38

Well, of course they won't be, but I was just responding to people who keep posting about the men sending for their families once they get settled, as if they are emigrating. They won't be able to phone home, send money and get their families on the next plane out of a war zone!

Sadly, though, Jane10 could have a point; through the charity I have contact with I have heard some horror stories about how the men have been preventing practical help getting through to their women and children in refugee camps in Turkey.

rosequartz Fri 28-Aug-15 23:46:10

I do know a little bit about the refugee camps in Turkey having supported a charity there for Syrian refugees for quite some time now. But thank you for the information about how 'they' live anyway.

I was going to ask if the present surge of refugees have escaped directly from Syria or have exited the refugee camps in other countries.

Anniebach Fri 28-Aug-15 23:50:22

Why should a man bring his parents, aunt , cousin? Perhaps parents don 'to want to travel by boat, perhaps female relatives are single women

durhamjen Fri 28-Aug-15 23:50:36

www.mercycorps.org/articles/turkey-iraq-jordan-lebanon-syria/quick-facts-what-you-need-know-about-syria-crisis

durhamjen Fri 28-Aug-15 23:53:07

Criticised for using the word "they" now. That's new.