Sad friend

That's why I we didn't want another caravan after we retired.
DH thought it would be a good idea but I persuaded him that what we spent on a new caravan, site fees etc could be spent in nice B&Bs and hotels.

Yes, depressed or perhaps life has always revolved around him but now it doesn't , he does seem to speak as if life is against him, can't have a camper van, can't have a dog, doesn't like staying in a B & B , finds his grandchildren tiring .

My view completely jalima!

Another thread mentioned men acting like 'spoilt toddlers'

Is he a case in point?

Just a thought - my wife doesn't understand me ?

and does he whinge to you or to your DH (or both of you?) pollyparrot?

This thread is reminding me of a cartoon printed in Private Eye many years ago.
Sad-looking bloke sits at bar talking to himself. Goes like this.
'I'm so fed up and depressed...........I wonder why she left me...........it's all coming back to me now..........it was because I'm always so fed up and depressed.........

We've got a camper van and I love it. I think he sees us going off and feels jealous. We eat out most of the time when we're away, or we have a BBQ. He moans to DH as well.

He sounds an unhappy lonely man who is unable to summon up the courage to take more control of his life.

And the same could be said for his wife who chooses to be anywhere but with him. If they are so incompatible and unable to reach compromise solutions, why does she not take the initiative and make a life for herself without him? Because that takes courage too and maybe opting out in other ways is easier for her.

From your account, he presents as depressed. For all anyone knows, this could be the culmination of a long, empty and unhappy relationship for both of them. Who are we to judge or assume anything when we don't know even the half of it.

You asked initially pollyparrot what can you say to him? Depends on how confident you feel about acknowledging his apparent unhappiness; whether you think he is someone who could be cajoled into doing something for himself. If he is depressed or at best demoralised, he is unlikely to have the motivation to do anything much. Friends don't always have the solutions and sometimes they do just as well to listen.

It sounds to me like they both need a good talking-to. We love our grandson dearly but we still manage to juggle grandson responsibilities and a caravan. We have our month in France every June, 3 weeks in Scotland every August and plenty of weekends away as well. All it takes is a little organisation (and some assistance from the "other grandparents" during school holidays).

I don't think the wife will move out as she seems to have things her way and may need his pension to contribute to her lifestyle .

Does he really want a camper van or is it he sees you having fun in one. He could always hire a small one for a few days and go and see if he likes it on his own.

Suggest he goes and dog walks stray or other people's dogs. Then he will find a dog he likes.

Best solution a dog and a small camper van. The dog would be great company and an excuse to go out when the grand children are around and company on his trips in the van. Also people always talk to people with dogs so he will be less lonely.

First of all he has to learn to stand up for what he really wants and just get on with it.

Many when retirement comes find they have an empty marriage, not that they haven't the courage to divorce, just don't want the hassle, possibly selling up the home, looking for two properties to buy/rent , splitting savings etc, the thought is exhausting.

Moaning about how hard done by one is, is addictive. I'm thinking he likes the sympathy you give him. He's obviously envious of your lifestyle and enjoying your concern. Give him short shrift, politely, of course. I'm on her side. (the wife that is).

It's a shame he's sad but you're only hearing his part of the story.

A decent, reliable campervan can be quite expensive and perhaps she's thinking that you can get a lot of B&B holidays for the cost of a depreciating asset that requires spending money every year on tax, insurance, breakdown/recovery cover, and maintenance. My friend spent quite a lot of money on a second hand campervan and almost immediately she had to have repairs done. And I suppose they use more petrol and are more difficult to manoeuvre than a car?

I really can't see why he can't just do a B&B holiday. If he can afford a campervan he can afford that.

Perhaps he feels a bit pushed out by the grandchildren and if he is helping with them a lot perhaps, as he says, it is too much for him. But those are separate issues and, if he does feel that way, he should maybe discuss it with his wife.

Polly probably best to keep out of it and make sure that he only sees you and your DH together. When he complains just tell him he is talking to the wrong people and he should be talking to his wife and getting a plan for their future sorted out.
Some people just like complaining and are never satisfied anyway. He may not even know what he wants and so his wife may even have decided to make the most of the grandchildren whilst they are small knowing that otherwise she and they will miss out. In a few years time he may be equally sad that he missed out on the grandchildren growing up.
There could be grave danger to your own marriage if you let him get too close. Just tell him that the only two people who can sort out their situation is himself and his wife and suggest that they get marriage counselling.

A bit of give and take comes to mind! A relative of a friend is in a similar situation. After he retired he was looking forward to being together and enjoying activities together. However, the wife is totally wrapped up with their daughter and 3 gc's to the exclusion of everything. He too loves his gc's but not on a daily, all day basis. Keen on walking, he takes himself off on bush walks and returns to Europe with companions to walk the Camino. She decided he was ignoring her and has now moved to a house 50 yards from the DD, which he has financed, and is citing for divorce. He has given her 90% of everything and bought a smaller property for himself and a trailer tent. Not satisfied, she found out the cost of the trailer and is demanding he gives her a similar amount........much more to this story, but won't bore you.
Perhaps Polly's friend should 'develop a pair' (as mentioned in a recent thread!) and go out and do what he wants to do. Life is too short to stay home being miserable.....Who knows, it may be that the wife sees the light and eventually joins in.

Why doesn't he rent a campervan for a month in the summer to try it out. Bet the grandkids would love days out in it even if they don't sleep overnight.

I am not sure I agree with you janeainsworth when you say ^Sorry polly but he sounds a bit pathetic.
The only person responsible for his happiness is he himself^

Although I absolutely agree with your following point He needs to change what he can, and accept what he can't.

Sometimes I look at my life and think how absolutely miserable I must come across sometimes, but there is nothing whatsoever I can do about it.

It seems that no matter what I try to do or plan to do, it all goes horribly wrong. Many of you know how I looked after my dear grandma until she died last September. I was very tied. Unable to get away or even dare to have a night out sometimes for fear of "the phonecall". Now my grandma has gone but my mum is seriously ill. She has been for a long time but on top of all her problems she has broken her leg and I am once again tied. Everything I plan is cancelled at the last minute. So I can no longer see the point of bothering.

I can totally understand your friends sadness pollyparrot. Sometimes there are things totally out of our control.

Actually just re-reading my post above. I am not sad. I am a downright miserable cow. There I have said it.

Back to OP - some people love to vent - they moan and complain to others, who do their best to be sympathetic and helpful and I suspect go home feeling a whole lot better. I had a female friend like that - she spent years banging on and on about how awful and controlling her husband was. There were two of us who got the brunt of it. Eventually we both backed off, it was really depressing and exhausting for us and our OHs especially as she did nothing about her situation herself. Yet SHE was the one with the purse strings and could have initiated a change any time she wanted. Eventually the marriage did break down and it was such a relief for everyone. But oddly she has never been as close to me and the other friend ever since. I think its because she has moved on and does not want to be reminded of that time. We both feel pretty hurt as we both spent hours and hours trying to support her. Trying to help. Big mistake - the only people who can help are they themselves. End of.

gilly I've met you and you are most certainly NOT a miserable cow.
Yes, you have it pretty tough, and have huge amounts of responsibility that would wear anyone down.
But I've never in RL or on GN heard you actually complain.
Asked for advice yes - but moan, no.
You're a stoic.

Perhaps he loves his wife and was looking forward to there retirement a chance to spend some time together go places see things, instead she always around the dds and dgc. My husband and I always make time for each other that's why I married him.
Cherrytree59 I love that you do all that with your husband good for you ?

Dear pollyparrot this man appears to be a neighbour of yours, to envy your life style and is hoping you will solve his problems for him. As others have said in this thread he appears to be happy in the role of victim, when it is apparent he could get on and enjoy himself. He may well be depressed and he may have relied on his wife to be his mood manager and 'keep things cheerful'. He now needs to grow up.

There is so much he could do. For example if he wants a dog's company he could be a dog sitter or walker or help at a dog rescue. He could do all the things with a camper van that have been suggested by others on this thread. He seems to be very selfish not willing to enjoy the company of his grandchildren.

As he is a driver there are jobs he could do like being a volunteer to drive older people to medical appointments etc. Unless of course they have one car and his wife has gone away with it.

He is probably short of social skills to get on with other people and may have relied on his wife as his social secretary. He should get on and do the things he enjoys that he can do and then he might be better company for his wife.

Whatever happens if you value your own marriage you must not 'help him out' by inviting him as a third party to your outings and events or going to his house for a coffee etc.

I would look up a list of things going on locally ie. theatre trips by U3A, films etc and when he next complains suggest he has a look at X,Y,Z. This might include doing some voluntary work. If next time he complains you ask him what he did which I think will be nothing, you can suggest that maybe he should talk to his GP. next time he complains he won't have done that either. So don't try to help by taking action. Just say well he knows there is a life out there, he knows he may need to see his GP if he is not able to grasp the opportunities. You hope he will soon. etc. Just keep making it his responsibility to sort himself out.

Good Luck

Until he makes it clear to his wife that he is unhappy with the situation there will be no compromise. Perhaps he is afraid to bring up the subject in case it makes her angry. Life is too short to miss out on things we want to do ( without hurting anyone). I know you want to be a good friend, Polly, but if you interfere you risk losing both friendships.

One thing struck me in the comments - he wants a dog but his wife says no????

I'm not sure that asking for permission to do things like that is sane or reasonable. I love dogs, always have , my husband tolerates them ( although our current dog Sam is his best mate and if pushed will admit he loves him !)

I have never asked for permission to get a dog. I do the work. I pay their keep, purchase price, vets bills etc.

I'm a grown woman and therefore I make my own decisions. Its not that I don't take my husband into account , and if he was unable to tolerate a dog for medical reasons then that would be different.

But he doesn't ask me if he can play golf- its a given. I don't ask if I can go shopping.

Consideration and communication for sure but permission?

Im afraid Polly your friend will always be unhappy because he's a talker not a doer ! If he was that unhappy any reasonable person would do something about it I think.

Maybe your sympathetic ear just makes him feel better.