Sleep Nightmare

I cringed when I read that too Mumofmadboys .

The thought of locking a child in his room I find horrific. Yesterday morning post I think.

I had a cheap and cheerful sofa bed that opened out onto the floor (so no falling out of it). I breastfed at bedtime and left each one asleep (there were three all told) and if/when they woke, I joined them in bed till they settled and left them again. A stair gate prevented them leaving the room when they progressed to crawling and toddling. Once they were big enough, they went into a single bed with a bed guard so they couldn't fall out. I still got in with them to settle them and also if they woke in the night. So they always had their own bed. It meant that my sleep was disturbed minimally and my husband's hardly at all. They had regular bedtime routine with bath, supper, teeth cleaning, story and cuddle as they got older. It wasn't hard but I stayed at home to care for them rather than working to pay someone else.

I completely agree with you Tegan and that's the way I brought up my children. As I said in my earlier post, I recognise it's not for everyone, but it's our society that's out of step, not children.

I don't think there's a 'one size fits all' way to bring up children. But neither do I see it as a battle for control.

Trouble is [imo] if you look on us as animals our natural way to sleep would be as a family all cuddled up for warmth and security. Not sure when we decided that we all needed to be in separate beds/rooms etc. but babies and toddlers probably just use their natural instinct which is to want to cuddle someone.

If you raise your baby from the start to learn to settle, then it would never get to the point of leaving them to scream and vomit.

If a child continues to wake and wants to sleep in your bed, when you don't want the child there, then this can be rectified.

I would never advocate leaving a child to scream and scream. I would always go into a crying child but not immediately. Sometimes a child will settle after a short cry. Other times the crying might not stop so easily.

The thing to do is go in, so the child knows they haven't been abandoned but do not reward them in any way for waking and crying. Have a set phrase like, it's sleep time, night, night and then leave the room. That way the child has had reassurance that the parent is around but they haven't been rewarded for the unwanted behaviour.

If parents are unhappy with the child disrupting their sleep then it's necessary to take steps to rectify the situation. It's nothing to do with tough love or being firm, it's about changing an undesirable situation so everyone can get some much needed sleep.

There are some strange ideas on here about 'control' and 'pestering their parents for attention'

Tough love? Be firm? None of that has to include leaving a child to scream or cry themselves sick. I wouldn't do that to a puppy let alone a child I loved with all my heart.

I think the thing Ive noticed most is how parents mention how exhausted they are and in the next breath that it was 'easier' to give in.

That's the problem in my opinion, the easy way isn't always the best way.

The day a toddler rules our house will be the day I move out I love them all dearly but we all benefit from a good nights sleep and if that means some tough love and hard work on my part so be it .

My GD had a bout of nightmares around the age of 3 and her mum bought her a dream catcher. It seemed to do the trick for her but I know it won't work with everyone.

My youngest was another one who insisted on sleeping in my bed and it began around the age of two and went on for a long time. I tried everything but as I was a single parent it was easier eventually just to let him crawl in and for us both to get some sleep. He stopped of his own accord eventually.

Do you think the children sleeping on pavements in India pester their parents for attention at night? Children will attempt to control you if you don't control them. They have to learn that in life you don't always get what you want. One of my sons used to get in bed with me - appeared in the night at MY side as my H would never let him in. In the end I locked him in his room and he shouted for a couple of nights then gave up. We have an excellent relationship in his adulthood. Who's in charge? Who needs to. Be rested to be a good parent? BE FIRM, you owe it to them.

we had this problem with our youngest son, he insisted on sleeping with us and took up more than half the bed, we squashed his legs and then squashed his top half. repeatedly, over several nights, until he decided by himself to go and sleep in his own bed

we had this problem with our youngest son, he insisted on sleeping with us and took up more than half the bed, we squashed his legs and then squashed his top half. repeatedly, over several nights, until he decided by himself to go and sleep in his own bed

I have 5 grandchildren and 4 of them will only sleep with parents. Parents are exhausted. All work and need their sleep.
However 2of them who come to me for regular sleepovers sleep in their own beds when with me. I just tel them Granny's house Granny's rules. They wake up early for cuddles but that is not a problem. They are totally accepting of this.

My DD has exactly the same problem with 2 year old DGD. Just like SusieB50 they bought a king size bed. Both parents working full time can't bear the thought of the constant taking her back to her own bed, therefore losing prescious sleep. DD has actually admitted that she actually really likes it!! How times have changed, it would never have entered my head to have nothing short of rigid night time routines with my own DC. Another one of those tongue biting moments for me.

If parents want to change things, it's actually quite a quick process. Parents need to work together and support each other, as it can feel awful for them. It's much worse for the parents through the changes than it is for the child.

At age two a child can understand what's expected and that's where I would start. Explain in simple terms what's going to happen at bedtime.

It's really important to have a strict bedtime routine at this stage and to stick to it. This could be teatime, a drink of milk, a bath, teeth, pyjamas on and into bed and then story time. By sticking to the routine the child knows what's coming and what's expected.

The parent should then say night, night, time to go to sleep now. If the child gets out of bed they should be put back in calmly without any fuss whatsoever. The parent should then leave the room.

This will have to be repeated many times but eventually a child will get tired and will go to sleep. It's essential to stay calm throughout and keep putting the child back in bed. Have a set phrase, night, night, time to go to sleep now. Don't enter into any other dialogue with the child and don't look at them. The idea is to be as boring as possible and to not reward the child in any way for their behaviour.

Some children become hysterical and may even be sick, which is extremely difficult to get through. Again, keep calm and stick to the routine.

If the child wakes in the night, repeat as above. The first night will be horrendous but over subsequent nights the resistance from the child will reduce. If both parents stick to this routine the child will start sleeping in their own bed.

Children thrive if their parents are consistent with them and set the boundaries, along with lots of love and positive attention.

I agree with other posters, happy settled routine is the best way. Having said that our DD1 slept fine, DD2 was a nightmare for 2 years-we said we didn't need contraception, we were never in bed together It was grim at the time. She now has her own 2 yr old who has had a routine from birth and she sleeps v well in her own room.
I really feel for them; I could never understand why sleep deprivation was used as torture-I can now. However it all passes with time. . . . And as someone else says when they're teenagers you can't get them out of bed.

It may be that they've missed the window of opportunity for being firm and consistent. It's very upsetting to have to listen to your child sobbing and screaming out your name and in the middle of the night and it's so much easier just to take them into bed with you. Studies show that children who shared a bed regularly with their parents are no more likely to be sharing beds at 5 than those who have usually slept in their own beds. Have they thought of getting a single bed and taking turns in sleeping in that with the child? At least they get alternate nights of good sleep. The idea is that the parent gets up in the morning before the child wakes so that they gradually get used to sleeping alone. It worked in 2 weeks for one of mine!

Katek that sounds a very difficult and sad situation. The anxiety is understandable under the circumstances and it may take a lot of getting over I'm afraid. Losing a parent can have very far reaching consequences. I would indulge and reassure I think.

I had a sleeping bag on the floor next to my bed,and my son would come in and climb into that. I don't remember having any problem getting him to use it.

I smiled at the reference to teenagers. I had two terrible sleepers but at least you know where they are as babies. When they were 16 and out at some club till the early hours I used to lie awake hankering after the days of going in and out of their rooms. Of course the galling thing at that age was that they could sleep for England!

We are still having problems with dgd age 9. She's never been the best at settling herself, but between stories, warm milk and a lots of bedtime hugs she was improving. Since her father died 3 years ago however, my dd is really struggling to get dgd to sleep anywhere but in beside her. It was understandable initially, but after 3 years we don't know how much is habit, or wanting/getting her own way or genuine anxiety. She's a very bright child with an overactive imagination and can get herself into a total panic attack, complete with hyperventilation. She is completely phobic about people being sick, and on a recent hotel stay worked herself into a state because she heard someone in another room coughing and thought they were going to be sick. I babysat last week as dd had parents' evening and had the whole anxiety conversation for the umpteenth time. When was mummy coming back, would she come straight up, would I tell her to go up to bed etc? She kept appearing saying she couldn't sleep and when dd came home she came hurtling down the stairs crying that she'd missed her and clutching her round the legs. She then wanted dd to go to bed there and then. She's def trying to control her mother. One part of me feels really sorry for her and the other part says she's needing to be dealt with quite firmly. She's a sharp cookie-if you ask her what all the tears for mummy are about she says she has twice as many tears because daddy died so she's crying for two people.

I agree with most posts. One of my grandsons aged 5 is put down in his own bed every night, but always wakes and gets in with his parents and they complain about him wriggling etc . His dad my son sometimes goes into GS bed so he can get some sleep. They did try at one stage taking him back but never kept it up - said they were too tired and gave in. When we babysat for the weekend he tried to come in with us several times but I took him back every time. I must admit I got in with him in his bed a few times and came back when he was asleep but it didn't last. My DH would never allow our own children in with us, - except in the mornings, or when they were ill in which case they slept with me and he went in their beds. I try not to comment in case it's taken as criticism but I do worry especially in view of some posts above. I hope he grows out of it before he's 11!

I don't think there is any 'should' or 'shouldn't' about it. Like everything to do with bringing up children, parents have to do what they are happy with and ignore what anyone else does, or tells them they should be doing. I was a pushover as a parent; played musical beds and then bed shared for several years. I don't regret it at all but it's not for everyone. My DD is a lot like me (but firmer) whereas my DS and DIL are very organised and strict on bedtimes - which seems to work well for them. I have to abide by parents' rules when I look after grandchildren and that's fine too, because that's what the children are used to.

I have very early memories of being afraid of the dark and also sometimes being very frightened in my own bed all alone. I used to scream and scream to be allowed into my parents' bed, and sometimes I was and sometimes I wasn't. I don't think it did me any harm at all to be allowed in there, and I can certainly relate to a child who is frightened and needs comfort sometimes. Perhaps we can expect too much of children; after all, it's hard to learn to be all alone.

I don't have a solution, but my son and his wife have the same problem with their three year old. He goes to his own bed but wakes around midnight. Then my son has to carry him to the spare room and they sleep in the spare bed together. At dawn the little one is ready to get up, and my son struggles downstairs. If he doesn't take him downstairs he will wake the baby, so my son gives in. What to do? I just don't know.

I believe children need to sleep in their own beds. You do have to set a routine from a young age.

The problems come when that hasn't been possible. We always insisted that they didn't come in to us. (Despite both being breast fed. )
I think it will take some tough love and consistency to win the bed back again.

I have taught kids who still shared with their parents at 11 which can not be right !!!!!. In some cultures it may be natural but that doesn't mean we have to all do the same.

Children don't snuggle down and sleep like a teddy bear. They toss and turn and kick all night. A sleep clinic seems like a good idea and worth every penny.