Men v. women

No wonder fewer women take part in these quizzes if those who do are regarded as over-confident or pushy - this is quite a general feeling that starts in childhood when those who always put their hands up in class (especially girls) are not seen as enthusiastic but as 'know-it-alls' and this is of course a negative.

When working for the LEA it was part of my brief to sit in on lessons. I started to notice how many more times boys who raised their hands were called on to give an answer rather than a girl who also had her hand up.

In case I was imagining this I started keeping a tally. The results over several months in different aged classes showed that there was a 2:1 ratio in favour of the boys. When I fed this back to teachers at the end of a lesson they denied any bias.

I think it's to do more with how they view themselves, rather than how others view them, Anya. Noone's saying that confidence is a bad thing, rather pointing out that males in general tend to have more of it, whether justified or not. Surely a good teacher would be encouraging the less confident of either gender to have their say?

(MOnica - I agree with you entirely.)

I taught 16-18 year olds for years and I can tell you it is the girls who have the most confidence at that age and to say that women would worry too much about how they looked on TV is insulting. Even in their teenage years, bright girls know there are far more important things than their appearance.

I once attended a quiz with a group of men and women I did not know very well, all baby boomer age. I was shocked when at the start of the quiz all the men sat forward expectantly whilst the women sat back, arms crossed saying 'oh, we'll leave that to the men'. One said she would be secretary and write down the answers 'for the men'. Being keen to join in, I moved my chair nearer the men, ignoring the strange looks from both sides. I won't say I was the star of the quiz (as I wasn't) but when I did come up with what I knew was the right answer I had to assert myself to be taken seriously.

I realise that story does not explain the lack of girls on University Challenge. I asked my daughter once why she didn't try for a place on her Uni team. Her answer was that there are so many interesting things to get involved in on campus that answering questions on TV was low down the list.

I'm very surprised by your quiz experience, NotTooOld. I go to at least one pub quiz a week at our local and there's very much a 50/50 split men/women. We're one of the oldest teams in the place, but it's rare we get anyone under 30 joining in. The women are just as competitive and assertive (and knowledgeable) as the men. How odd that you would be getting strange looks for joining in! Why did the women even go there if they didn't want to take part?

My father used to say [to my great puzzlement when I was very little], that women were the more intelligent sex - they would let men think that they had thought of/done something, when in fact it was the woman.
What about "Every man owes his success to his first wife and his second to his success"?
Says volumes?

Maggiemaybe - the quiz was only part of the evening's entertainment. I found it very strange myself that the women took the attitude they did. The circles I usually move in, it is the women who take the lead! Must be a lack of confidence, I suppose; I certainly felt cross about it. Many of the men were ex forces and very dominant. I expect I'll get shot down now!

I'm another Scorpio who is a mine of useless information (never realised before it was a Scorpio thing).

Well, NotTooOld, I have really only had experience of one ex forces chap at close quarters, and I could have shot him down, literally! I'm sure they're not all the same though (says she, ducking).

punch.photoshelter.com/image/I0000eHEXGJ_wImQ

Maggiemaybe -

I'd have LOL'd Eloethan had that not been so true

Oh come on loads of people have heaps of useless info, they can't all be Scorpios (I'm not!)

Eloethan - that just about sums it up. Thank you. I love Punch cartoons.

There you go then,that's one difference,most females worry about what they look like,most males don't .As for confidence and intelligence,that can go either way,my great niece is much more academic and confident than her brother,(bless him)
Most females I know wouldn't dream of going out without makeup etc,
Not me of course,I'm beautiful enough without it,

We're certainly demonstrating that women are VERY talented at making excuses for not attempting something!

I too am a mine of useless information and usually do quite well at pub quizzes, except for questions about sport and pop music, when I am dragooned into going to one (when it's for a charity for example). However I think that it is one of the most boring ways to spend an evening ever devised. I suspect that quite a lot of women might feel the same way. Give me my sampler and Radio 4 any day!

Eloethan, I can't tell you how often it has happened to me! I now keep my trap shut , but when you're young and enthusiastic, it really isn't fair - to quote the playground mantra

Well said MOnica,
Now can we all try our very best to raise our granddaughters to be strong, resilient and confident young women who support their female friends?
Don't know where I'd be without mine.

On the subject in question, I read avidly as a little girl and can remember loads of stuff I learned from the encyclopaedias I devoured and though I am an atheist I always get the religion questions right in quizzes.
I do pretty well at the University Challenge questions apart from the more complex science and maths ones which sound like double dutch.
I went to a teacher training college in Bradford so couldn't have gone on UC but both male and female friends at the university seemed to think it was uncool to want to be on it. This was in the late 60s.

greyduster, I too am a Scorpio. I never knew I was destined to be a mine of useless information but so it has proved! I don't consider that those very involved maths questions on University Challenge are General Knowledge - more like very specialised knowledge. However, many of the scientists and medics in the teams have good general knowledge on the arts side. As for women, the girl who captained the winning team was very knowledgeable indeed. When we had an informal quiz with friends one new year, my sister and I wiped the floor with her husband (retired Uni lecturer) who thinks very highly of himself and my dear friend who might have had a little too much champagne.

Does anyone else have difficulty understanding some of the questions, let alone knowing the answers? It cheers me up that they are all so clever.

My husband and his friends wouldn't agree with this statement as I know lots of interesting general knowledge - gathered over a lifetime of reading books, newspapers and more recently online research. They always seem to end up asking me how do I know such wide ranging snippets. Stuff just seems to stick in my head; useful in daily life ....or not:0)

Monica You say "During my life I have found that the worst enemies of women achieving their goals are other women". I do think there is some truth in that but I think it has arisen because historically women were seen, and treated, as inferior to men - and some people still view them that way. (You only have to look at the way that "intellectual" women - such as Mary Beard - are treated to see that it is quite risky to speak authoritatively about almost any serious subject.) Some women have internalised that belief (though I'm hoping fewer younger women) and, as a result, they tend to see women's lack of progress in the public sphere as self-inflicted.

This happened with black people in the US, some of whom began to believe that they were intrinsically inferior in appearance and intellect to white people , and so deferred to them. I think the Black is Beautiful campaign was primarily an attempt not to make white people think differently but to change the psyche of black people who had internalised the belief that they were unattractive and intellectually inferior.

One bad experience with a female boss (or indeed no experience of having a female boss) and some women will say "I don't want to work for a woman". And yet they may have had many bad experiences working for a male boss but I have never heard a woman say "I don't like working for a man".

The women I found most difficult were those who had had the same opportunities as me but didn't take them up and then resented the fact that I had and therefore had a better job and was in a more senior position. I do not think any of them had internalised their sense of inferiority, though that is an interesting idea and I am sure it happens.

I am a mine of (sometimes) useless information. Always have been. My DH often wonders out loud how I know so many things

When I lived in England the village where I lived used to hold quizzes a few times a year to raise funds for the village hall etc. It was interesting to find that the group who usually one was the local goat breeders association.

Unfortunately, many women are still reticent about about putting themselves forward. One example has been in the news lately about men earning more than women in some fields because they are more likely to be pushy in negotiating better pay.
My DS is a physicist; where he works the male physicists out number the women 10 to 1 (4000 work there). I can't believe women can't do physics Their confidence has been sapped at some stage.
HOWEVER his female boss has been made head of the whole of the organisation and featured as one of the women of the year 2015.....