millenials can't afford houses because they're brunching (or not)

I live in east London and I don't take offence because I realise he is using the term ironically to characterise a certain snobbish element which sees any encroachment into the country by town/city dwellers as undesirable. We moved from the outskirts of London to a village in Suffolk when I was in my teens, and I recall several disparaging remarks suggesting that Londoners were a rather grubby and disreputable bunch of people whose city ways would spoil the rural idyll.

He is not suggesting building in London or any other parks. But there is a belief that not all green belt land is particularly useful or attractive. And when there is more land in Surrey devoted to golf courses than housing it seems to contradict the alarmist reports that the whole of the UK is covered in buildings. In fact, the UK National Ecosystem Assessment produced these results showing the percentage of land covered by buildings, roads, railways, canals and other man made structures:

10.6% England
1.9% Scotland
3.6% Northern Ireland
4.1% Wales

As for the rather dismissive tone re the LSE and the comments of Professor Paul Cheshire - in 2015 The London School of Economics and Political Science was ranked second in the world for social sciences for the third year in a row, according to the global university league table.

I was married in 1958. My fiance was in the merchant navy earning £8 a week (though there were tips etc on top of that) and I worked in an office in London at £10 a week. We bought our first house for £1,500 and 6 years later with 2 children we sold it for £2,700, so even in those days property prices had gone up considerably. The next house cost £3,200 and I'm still living there. We were always struggling with money and didn't have all the things young people take for granted these days.

We were always struggling with money and didn't have all the things young people take for granted these days.

you had a house!

what is is that you think young people "take for granted"? I hear mobile phones branded about - you can't work a zero hours contract without one they're hardly a luxury now, what else do young people "take for granted"? very few of the young mums at DDs school can afford a driving licence let alone a car. When I was a child everyone had a house and a car. It might have been a council house, or a house without a finished kitchen, but it was a secure home, and it might have been an old car, but it was still a car.

Baffled by what you think young people "take for granted" when these days you can't even take for granted that you can afford to even rent anywhere resembling a home or get any sort of permanant job?

you had a house!......

Yes, well, may be more exact to say people had a big mortgage.It was a struggle just to pay it, as interest was very high (as opposed to incredibly low now).We had no proper furniture to start with, and just a mattress instead of a bed.Household items came slowly, two years to buy a fridge.No meals out.No magazines. No treats at all.
No weekend breaks away, need I go on.We scrimped and scraped ( Yes, how very old fashioned.)
One of our DD's and husband did the same, were very, very frugal and saved up the deposit after some years, the other DD blew every penny she ever worked for on silly stuff and racked up debts.The message is that you CAN save if you want to.

Going without while you build up your own home is rewarding as you're working towards something

Going without furniture in miserable damp rental you'll probably have to leave in 6/12 months anyway is just piling misery on top of misery, how can you not see the difference?

You cannot save for your own home if home prices are 13 times your salary because even with a HUGE deposit % wise you will not get a mortgage. Heck it won't even get you a better rental in many cases.

But it's not even about wanting to own, a decent rental that you can settle in and make "home" is out of many people's reach now

We scrimped and scraped ( Yes, how very old fashioned.) Oh please! Many young families can't cover food and bills and scrimp to make it to the end of the month without help from food banks! "Go without magazines" - wow what kinda bubble are you living in, people are going without heat and food!!!

When I was a child everyone had a house and a car.

You had a car!!

We did live in a house, but no car, no telephone.
The things I longed for when I was a teenager were a house of my own, a car and a telephone.

What's a finished kitchen? Ours had a red tiled floor which DM polished with Cardinal Red, a sink, a cooker (although I still remember the old range that had to be blackleaded) and a table and chairs. Dad made a wall cupboard for the crockery. The dolly tub had to be dragged in weekly to do the washing.

I think notanan that the OP was referring to someone she knows who has lots of holidays but then complains she can't afford to save for a deposit for a house.
The OP's young friend can obviously afford to feed herself if she can afford holidays, takeaway coffees etc, this young person is not relying on food banks.

Exactly Jalima - I also know lots of 'youngsters' in the same position.

We had a car because it was part of OHs contract as he had to travel and work nights/week-ends on emergencies. An old banger of course. And we had nothing new at all- all begged and borrowed or home-made- and nothing matched- and we didn't care either.

I do know about high rentals (some sub-standard) and I also know about people of any age who cannot seem to stop money slipping through their fingers. Siblings can differ in their attitudes towards money, saving, even if they were brought up the same.
It was always thus, though, some people can manage on very little, others cannot.

A friend told us once that his wife hates money.
'She can't get rid of it fast enough' he said.

Anyone who thinks that taking time to save and furnish your own home is an example of hardship and "going without" is demonstrating that they have absolutely no clue about what it's like to establish any sort of permanent home now as a young family

ditto "just having a banger". Many young people now can't even afford to get a licence. Any car isn't "making do", it's lucky! this is the difference between what our generation can reasonably strive for and what our parents could reasonably strive for.

What age are you notanan are you usually on Mumsnet? I ask because every single post on different threads that I have read (written by you) are just one long angry rant about society.Usually unhappy about older people 'not understanding ' take time to read what the OP has said before jumping in so aggressively.

In my experience it was my generation who couldn't afford to learn to drive, never mind own a car. Neither me or my first husband could drive.

These days it seems to be a priority among young people (understandably, given the distances some have to travel for work etc.) and most have at least one relative they can have free lessons with.

Most of us on GN are parents of grown-up children, notanan, and we certainly do know how hard it can be for many youngsters to be able to afford their own home.

(bit of bad grammar in that first sentence - sorry!)

Oh no, it was the second sentence

Most of us on GN are parents of grown-up children, notanan, and we certainly do know how hard it can be for many youngsters to be able to afford their own home.

Then you'll appreciate how ridiculous comments about cutting back on coffee and magazines are? When renting a rubbish flat in a rubbish area takes up a whole annual salary and offers zero security, and no matter what you go without, there simply are not lenders offering 6/7/8 times someone salary even with a large deposit? People can't make a home, they can't put up pictures, they can't paint a wall.. but god forbit they seek some enjoyment elsewhere given that they can't have the luxury of working towards making a home.. then they're just greedy and don't know how to save.

Having your own home to scrimp and save to furnish is quite frankly an unattainable goal for so many now that it's galling when it's being held up as an example of how our generation don't understand how to go without

6/7/8/ times someone's salary ? We were lucky to get 3 and a half ! I am astonished at that .

6/7/8/ times someone's salary ? We were lucky to get 3 and a half ! I am astonished at that

That would be with a hefty deposit, and it'ld be declined, nobody would lend that. because here the lower rungs of the property ladder here would be 13 times our salary.

So if we were young and starting out now we would have zero, zero hope of getting our own home, regardless of how many coffees or magazines we cut back on, because even if we had 50% deposit (somehow), a basic crappy property would still require a mortgage top up which would be the equivalent of 6ish times our salary

Are you saying you're not young, notanan? I'd have put you in your 30s from the posts I've seen from you so far.

Maybe you just have a young attitude!

(or 20s)

Or maybe I just have more of an ability to empathise with people younger than me and put myself in their shoes than you Ana?

I get that the opportunities I've have haven't been just down to hard work, I also had opportunities that are just not available to the majority of young families now.

Starter jobs that I could walk into in my 20s from the street and get a "foot in" now require a 2/3 year BTEC or NVQ if they're available at all, many entry level jobs just don't exist and have been replaced by £3/hr apprentiships.

University was attainable

Saving was possible

We experienced the very end of that but a lot of our peers who are DDs parents but a bit younger totally missed the boat and no amount of "scrimping" is going to bridge that gap

??

Hmmm! I seem to remember when I left work to have my first babies (twins) that inflation was running at 24%! I do remember the embarrassment of having to take food out of my basket at the checkout because I couldn't afford to pay for it all. No disposable nappies or new baby equipment for us!

I would agree that property prices in and around London are ridiculous now but not completely out of range in many other parts of U.K. If young people are not able to afford to buy property, who is living in all the houses? Lots of them built here recently and all snapped up immediately. They aren't all occupied by us selfish elderly folks!

I have 4 children with their own homes and they all work damn hard to afford them! Admittedly they had a bit of a hand from us selfish parents.

If young people are not able to afford to buy property, who is living in all the houses? Lots of them built here recently and all snapped up immediately.

were they? all by owner occupiers and not by buy to let?

The lack of security is the worst thing. Not only is my son paying £900 a month for two rooms, but he lives in constant fear of the landlord either wanting the flat back or upping the rent to something even more unaffordable.

He has been sitting way down on the Council waiting list and has now been told he shouldn't be on it because with one child under three they are not overcrowded.