Poppy dillemma

I think of it as reparation.

durhamjen I don't think anyone is taking any notice anywhere (I don't mean on here, I mean worldwide - and throughout history).

As long as there are aggressors, we will need defence. We just need to stop supplying arms to aggressors.

Who draws the line?

It isn't defence to sell arms to countries which then use them to bomb civilians. If you think it is Ok to take money from a company who make arms just so that you can look after the injured from wars you are nuts. If there weren't arms there would be no injured to take care of. It seems the real lesson of remembrance -that it should never happen again-has been completely forgotten.

WARFARE IS AS OLD AS CIVILIZATION ITSELF. In fact, experts believe that the first armed conflicts were fought more than 10,000 years ago by prehistoric city-states in present day Syria, Jordan and Iraq. These early contests were likely waged over resources or land
The first recorded battles were in 2,500 BC

No, we have learnt nothing and I don't think we ever will - even the most popular futuristic films etc are based on war.

The RBL's role is to pick up the pieces from the wreckage caused by politicians. Whether you think war is justified or plain wrong (and no-one glorifies it or thinks it is good) as long as history throws up dictators, people who commit genocide etc then there will be good people who show courage and try to defend and save others and deal with the aftermath.

It is , it does not make me in the least happy, but I cannot stop it any more than anyone can and I am not nuts and I do care.

We now have another one to worry about across the pond.

Its sad to think that if we don't learn then theirs only one way that our lives will end

It isn't defence to sell arms to countries which then use them to bomb civilians

I agree, and as I said to you earlier

I think the RBL need to review that

Someone has to start. Someone has to draw the line.

When do we become Airstrip One, or are we that already?

People have protested for years though and where has it got us - worse than ever these days.
Look at the protests before the Iraq war
I do despair sometimes.

It isn't history that "throws up" dictators they are often installed and helped by governments, until they prove useless then a nice little war can be fought to get them out.

My OH and I have visited many WW1 cemeteries over the years. My grandfather was killed on 27th sept. 1918. He has no known grave but his name is on a memorial in france. We take a small poppy wreath when we visit the memorial to pay our respects and to thank him for his sacrifice so that future generations would not have to face the horrors he did. Of course, this didn't happen due to actions of politians and heads of governments .
The poppy was chosen as a symbol of sacrifice in the 1920's. When all trees and vegetation was destoyed the poppy was one flower that flourished,This remembrance sunday our grandson laid a poppy cross on our war memorial to remember his great-great- grandfather who was younger than him when he died.

And we all pray for peace on earth majorcagirl

sorry, should have posted this majorcagirl:

Pointless to say 'if there weren't any arms' because there are and always have been.
And saying, oh if only the world had no guns how lovely it would be, yes, a nice thought isn't it, but it will never happen ( no matter how many protests, petitions etc)

As Jalima said in one of her posts, those young men were fighting to give us freedom of choice ( so wear/don't wear a poppy) but the RBL do good things with the money, should you choose to buy one.

Of course it won't as long as people, including government ministers, are making money out of it.
It's not pointless to say it, though. The more of us say it the better.
If Americans did not have a legal right to bear arms, there would be quite a few more alive.

Chimpanzees have wars.

There's an evolutionary reason behind our warlikeness. It won't be a simple matter to erase all that however hard we try. I think we should try; I think we are trying. Warlike behaviour in human apes is decreasing.

Really? Aren't we supposed to be better than primates? Isn't that what our speech and thought processes are supposed to iron out? We are supposed to have a conscience.
Whatever happens to that when money comes into it.

No, we're not supposed to be better than primates. We are primates. Very complex ones. Yes, we have a conscience. My only point really was that it's not a simple matter so there isn't and won't be a simple solution.

Yes, sorry, got that wrong.
However, we are the only primates who are protected by the declaration of human rights, because we were clever enough to think of it, therefore thinking we are above other primates.

I never assumed there would be a simple solution, but there is no reason that people shouldn't look for a solution, is there?
Occasionally there have been cease fires in wars in the Middle East. Unfortunately, it's so the bigger powers can get more arms. If there can be cease fires for a few days, why not for a week, then a month, then a year.
If we stop selling arms, there will be no arms to use.
If everyone checked their pension companies and went with those that ensured they did not support the arms trade, there would be less money in the arms trade, and your conscience might be better.

You are preaching again, dj. To the converted in my case.

Hey ho. It's what you do.

For god's sake, give up, bags. Do you have to criticise every bloody thing I say, with your supercilious hey ho!

Next time I won't bloody well apologise.

Haha! I had to look up supercilious; had a rough idea but it's not a word I've ever used. It didn't surprise me that you already knew what it meant—takes one to know one ;)

Just looked it up myself to make sure it means what I think it means. I was right.
At least you admit you are.

'As besieged eastern Aleppo shares out the very last of its food and Russia gets ready to launch an all-out assault on the city, the US has chosen a new president who wants to partner up with Putin and by extension, Assad.

There’s little point sugar coating it: this will mean tougher times for Syria’s civilians.

As borders are tightened and more barbed wire rolled out, Bashar al-Assad will no doubt feel further emboldened to crush all dissent by force. That’ll mean more barrel bombs and chemical weapons on opposition areas, more mass starvation sieges, more disappearances and detention.

It may be tempting to despair and turn away, but we owe it to the rescue workers of the White Helmets, the medics under fire, and all of the ordinary families living under the bombs to do the exact opposite.'

From The Syria Campaign.

No, I don't admit that I'm supercilious. I agree that you have misinterpreted my hey ho so badly that you think I am. It is a much friendlier thing than that. I don't think superciliousness can be relaxed, can it? It strikes me, from its dictionary definitions, as quite a taut thing.

Hey ho is about relaxed acceptance. I accept that you preach a lot because of your strong convictions. Possibly I shouldn't have mentioned the preachiness but you seem like a tough cookie...

Let me know if you need an apology.

Superciliousness is very relaxed. It's the demeanour of those Cameron/Boris photos at Oxford, looking down on others who aren't in their club.