Bellsisabelle

I have been so entertained with this discussion that I didn't notice Minibags has slept in and missed the school bus. She'll have to get the service bus and pay the bus-fare herself. I'm not giving her a lift. She can be as offended as she likes.

She won't be though. She's being magnificantly calm and accepting of cruel fate. That"s my girl!

ankers, I think even deliberate offence-giving is sometimes justified. If, for example, someone has been sarcastic or mean towards one, an offensive put-down is quite in order in my view. Other people would just call the offensive put-down an appropriate retort.

I have sometimes felt 'offended' by things you've said, jane10. I've never thought it necessary to say so until now. Were you aware that you had offended me I had taken offence at some things you've said on Gransnet? Did you need to know? I think not.

From posts by the lady on whose behalf people are taking offence, I have gathered over the years that she is very comfortably off. She has made a comment or two about the Brexit vote affecting her monetary well-being. She has mentioned a house she owns in England although she lives in Switzerland.

So petra's remark can be seen in that context: a wee quip that is nonsense, and therefore slightly funny, when compared to reality. That's how I saw it. Nothing to apologise about.

I hooe you are quite well, still comfortable financially, gj, and having a lovely time with your family in .england or wherever you are right now.

But what about the person who deliberately set out to offend? Or half meant to offend, as jokes often are.

Should they try to change their ways?
Should they be asked for an apology?
Do you think they should apologise?

^and it's often not from a place of deliberately giving offence. I think one has to allow that.

What about when it is?^

Then be offended, by all means.

When one is expressing oneself in writing on a public forum there is every chance that the words will be taken at face value. 'Banter' is the classic excuse of the bully. Freedom of speech is a right that comes with some responsibility: there may be a price to pay for what is said. In this case it was that people think the worse of the person saying it. Some people may shrug this off. Others don't.

I guess I'm just wishing people in general were less twitchy and more easy going, more tolerant of difference.

You dont get the choice to change to change the world.

I'm astonished to see this tedious thread has reached 12 pages

and it's often not from a place of deliberately giving offence. I think one has to allow that.

What about when it is?

I guess I'm just wishing people in general were less twitchy and more easy going, more tolerant of difference. There's a lot said about diversity nowadays.

I understand the offensiveness to other people, ankers. I fully support people's right to be offended by whatever they choose. I also understand, quite often, where the 'offender' is coming from, and it's often not from a place of deliberately giving offence. I think one has to allow that.

Just because something doesnt bother you, should not be a gague in your case, that it is not offensive to many other people.

There are some things in life[in my case whether I am feeling cold or not] that I know is not a gague at all as to whether the cold is affecting other people, or that it is indeed cold at all.

It must be clear to you by now in your life I would have thought, that just because you do not find something offensive, is not at all or not very much indicitave of what others think or feel about something.
If you see what I mean.

Anyway, my point is still that, even if it was seen as unpleasant by some people, that's OK. As is the resulting shirtiness. Freedom of expression has to work for everyone. Which means that, inevitably, one will hear things one doesn't like quite often.

expense

thought it looked wrong!

My grandma took in washing. It's a perfectly respectable thing to do.

She did it all by hand too, as she had from the age of twelve.

I didn't think it unpleasant. It wouldn't trouble me. Neither would any other little joke at my expence that someone who hardly knew me made. Banter has a place in such exchanges as this thread.

To you maybe not but to others it was unpleasant.

Besides, no-one's perfect. One can be lovely and supportive and rather annoying at times. Most of us are. Making a tiny joke about someone or someone's position in life is not a big deal, not an out and out attack. In fact, it's not an attack at all. That was my point.

Fine. Free speech and freely. But getting shirty is just as potentially hostile in my eyes as a joke in a taste that won't appeal to everyone. Take your pick. It's the same kind of exchange.

Its not 'obviously a leg pull' and I reserve the right to 'get shirty' when I read things like that written about someone who has been kind and supportive to me and others.

And if I don't always believe in her views I uphold her rights to express them. As I do everyone else.

I think she is a very genuinely kind person who has strong views about what she believes in. We should all be so principled.

I honestly don't think Granjura would have been offended by the remark. It was a joke, and not insulting in any way, imho. I once considered setting up an ironing service (hard to imagine now, I never switch the iron on....).

Yes. It's getting ridiculous.