Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

Not at all nina, again a common argument thrown at women who raise concerns about this issue.

The facts are that 98% of sexual violence is carried out by males, 90% of the prison population are male, 2 women a week in this week are murdered by their male partners so I think it's fair to say that males are more violent than women.

If this bill passes then it will be possible for any male to access female space. Now obviously most of them will just want to pee but I think given the stats above that it's safe to assume that some men will take advantage and women and girls will be at risk.

Not all men of course, most men are lovely, my dad, my nephew, my husband, my friends, but men as a class are more violent.

Lets not forget that the reason transwomen want to wee in the ladies is because they are scared of male violence, shame that we really aren't even tackling the real issue but hey ho. Then if the loos are opened to all men then they become unsafe for transwomen anyway as a bloke could just follow them into the ladies.

I don't care who I wee next to, i really don't, but my elderly mum does and I care about her and women like her. My daughter does and her friends do, they are already being heckled by males and they deserve to pop to the loo and feel safe.

I have a friend who has experienced male violence, she won't go outside if this comes to pass and that sucks because, despite your view of the UK today, there are lots, and lots of women like her out there and I care deeply about them.

I care about Muslim ladies who wants to adjust her scarf away from males, don't you?

Sure some people would feel validated by weeing in the women's, but there are lots of women and girls who would like to keep their privacy, their dignity, their safety.

Call me obsessed if you like but I care about my rights and the rights of my daughter, don't you?

LSP, you seem obsessed with the idea that once legislation is passed, all men are going to dress up as women just so they can disguise themselves in order to get closer to women.

I believe our government sees them as human beings who need to pee just like anyone else. They are also a minority in need of some protection. Having a separate transgender facility is probably not an easy option so if they can't use a men's or women's toilet, what do you think they should do?

Rigby, I bet Trump wears these when he's home alone, just cos he's well jell of all the pussy hats.

nina what's a 'pussy hat wearing feminist with an ongoing issue with men' - someone who should stay away from Donsld Trump?

No Ana, my daughter keeps using it and it's slipped into my terminology. She's an edgy pre teen so it comes with a heavy dose of irony

Good for you nina, your world sounds lovely.

Anyway, This is a link to a petition against the changes which will be brought in if the gender recognition act goes through. It outlines most of the concerns I've stated and the impact that self identification will have on women and girls.

Rose Adams fought for sex segregated facilities over 100 years ago, women have come a long way since then so lets think long and hard before take away the right to sex segregated facilities.

Isn't 'swell' an American expression? Are you from/in the US, LSP?

Before you make further comment LSP, I should point out that I am not a pussy hat wearing feminist with an ongoing issue with men. In the UK women are free and I don't feel we have to prove this unless it's to help women and girls who are still living under cultural oppression.
I've never felt unequal, threatened or oppressed as a Western female.

Cool, avoiding misogynistic language like "cranky old bag" would be just dandy.

Then we can all get along just swell

Really? Goodness, I shall have word with myself just so I don't utter any words that can be defined as being the kind that only men would use.

Apologies nina, your language in your last post was misogynistic and very similar to the abuse which is hurled around when women upset men, mainly by having an opinion.

I am a female. I frequently get called all sorts. I scroll past and don't worry about it. x

Do you know one of the worst things about all this? The awful, casual sexism and ageism that Jenni Murray and other women have thrown at them.

No one ever calls a man a cranky old bag, there are thousands and thousands of terms of abuse for women and only a handful for men.

nina, if you're female then one day you will be a cranky old bag too, hopefully you will be treated with respect.

Nina i have lived all over the U.K and Europe. I am so glad you have made it this far without having to suffer violence but plenty haven't. Online bullying is awful but can be turned off

Anya, I think I'm too young for this group. I haven't reached cranky old bag status yet. What's your secret?

You need to distinguish between RL and your 'characters' ...but of course I might be mistaken and you might publish your research results.

No i didn't Nina are you in the habit of putting words into people's mouths?

I linked to the gender recognition bill earlier, the second hearing is in March, it was due on the 24 th of February but has been postponed. This would make gender, not sex, the protected characteristic.

I have experience of men who are autogynephiles which a lot of the late male transitioners are, they transition as they get a sexual thrill from dressing as the opposite sex. There are some fantastic transwomen who speak out about this like Miranda Yardley who is quoted in the Jenni Murray article.

You are describing an old school transexual, note the term sex is used. They are now transgender so if they have a penis it becomes a female penis, no need for surgery. They also become "lesbians" and harass female xx lesbians who will not consider them as sexual partners.

Self identification is the new norm. 80% of transwomen are intact males, no surgery. They commit crime at the exact same rate as men, funny that. Males are responsible for over 90% of all crime and 98% of sexual crime. Women and girls need, they deserve, sex segregated areas.

If we lose the right to have sex as the protected characteristic then that is the end to single sex facility's, game over.

The Brownies now accept "girls" based on gender self identification and we have lost the right to compete with our own sex in the Olympics, women are already losing sporting events to male bodied people. This has already happened, if the bill goes through then you cannot legally stop any man from entering a female area, or claiming a female award.

Transpeople deserve equal rights and opportunities, love, support and acceptance, but not at the expense of the entire female sex.

Is it. Have you experienced this personally? I did read the thread through at some speed, so you'll forgive me if I missed this.

Jess that has all changed, that is how it used to be, now men just say they are a woman, ta da,access to female space.

Self identification is how it is now.

As for the small percentage of intersex individuals, they are a tiny minority who have asked repeatedly not to be lumped in with trans, they have an abnormality.

As a race we have 2 legs, some people may be born with one or three legs but we are still a race with two legs.

Ankers My comment was in reply to your post where you said: "But we don't pee standing next to our dads [apologies for sounding coarse.] I reiterate my point that, of course, shared toilets must be all-cubicle, as MawB said above. I agree with her about the "whiff" too. Public urinals seems to be well past their sell-by date. Don't know why they are still being built, apart from making the queues shorter in the men's loos. I know quite a few blokes, including DH and DSs who prefer to go in the cubicle whatever their purpose. I wouldn't like to pee in front of another woman; why did urinals ever seem like a good idea? (Slightly off-topic, I know ...)

We have unisex toilets at the Centre where I go for Art History and Literature. Within the "Toilet" area there is one Disabled cubicle (and of course they are unisex) one cubicle nominally for men - so don't get narked if they have left the seat up! - but which any of us will you when needs must, one cubicle labelled for both and 2 cubicles nominally for women. The cubicles which are not specifically for men are different only in that they do not contain sanitary towel disposal bins.
We all had a laugh when the labels went up on the doors because beforehand nobody cared either way, but they had been advised that because the office staff were younger than us retired old dears and therefore possibly premenopausal, the disposal bins had to be installed.
Is anybody bothered? No, but this is not the sort of place you would be.
Public loos must of be all-cubicle if they are to be mixed. Frankly I have often felt sorry for men having to use communal urinals and when I was teaching in secondary schools the "whiff" just going past the door was enough to make anyone retch. ?

Fair enough.

But I am hardly going to say cousin/auntie/friend/sister etc about something so personal.
I think I write enough personal stuff on here as it is.

I did smile though when "a woman I know" turns into Jenni Murray! The "woman I know" would be very flattered indeed if she knew!

Sorry, Ankers
It bears out perhaps the point I made elsewhere about how using he/she without specifying who one means can lead to confusion.
( Especially when there may be posts in between)

trisher. Where did you queue for a unisex toliet? Somewhere safe? And what time of day is it open?
Is it in a shop? Well-lit?
No drunks around?

Would you be ok going into my town toilet, open late at night? By yourself? A young girl? etc etc