Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

JessM. That still does not explain the "bitter" bit.

The woman I know is not bitter. Far from it.

MB nad JessM

The end of my previous post says
I know a woman who can run rings around some men,physically, her husband included

It is most certainly not JM!

Even if I were to know JM, which I most certainly do not, I would hardly be putting her medical stuff on gransnet.

As there seems to be a bit of an obsession with toilets (have people never seen unisex ones?) I have used the gents when the queues for the ladies were too long. I managed fine, wasn't raped and didn't see anything I shouldn't have. Quite a few women did this, I wonder if the men felt threatened?

Physical gender is not an either or thing. A % of babies are born with indeterminate gender

That is what I thought. But a poster[cannot be bothered to scroll back and find out who, could have been Anya] said that it is determined. Either XX or XY.

You cannot both be right. Or can you?

Who did you mean when you wrote this then?
Add comment | Report | Private message Ankers Mon 06-Mar-17 08:25:19
She cannot have children of her own because she was told that she did not have enough female hormones. So they adopted.
Is she a woman? Of course she is, as is plain to see by everyone with half an eye.

Great post JessM

Retrolady, I dont know which post you are referring to

And to clarify - Ankers you seemed to imply that JM was a bitter woman because she could not have children.

eh? I didnt even know she didnt have children!
Have you got the wrong poster?

Ankers - no, of course we don't (do we? I don't!), which is why I said "all cubicle toilets". They have these in my former workplace which was a secondary school, and it works very well - no problems with 'overhearing' - well, no more than in the Ladies, anyway! There's a reminder on the back of the loo doors to make sure "all is as it should be" before opening the door though (skirts not tucked into knickers, zips at half-mast!)

Thank you JessM for a sane and sensible post and for putting the record straight.

Physical gender is not an either or thing. A % of babies are born with indeterminate gender. This may be apparent at birth - external genitalia not obviously one or other. Or it may become apparent years later - no uterus for example. It's a continuum, with most people falling at one end or the other. This is referred to as "intersex" Sometimes the cause is chromosomal - but not always.
Sexuality is also a continuum - with some people having a strong preference for one kind of partner, and some much less bothered.
Sexual identity - which gender you think and feel you are, does seem to be something that is quite different to gender and sexuality.
I think that people whose sexual identity does not match the body they find themselves in need understanding and support. Of course, as in any group, there may be a few criminals. However they tell us nothing about the vast majority do they?
Those making the transition who want surgery are usually required to live successfully as the other gender for quite a while before doctors agree to operate. This means they have to try to dress and behave as a woman, live as a woman, and they start taking female hormones. I think that during this period they are going through a kind of puberty as a woman. So they may be adult but they are also teenage girls trying to find their own way of being a woman. (or vice versa but this thread seems less concerned about female to male)
It is very difficult for many and there is a high suicide rate.
So Happy International Women's Day to you MargaretXYZ I know you have been a member of GN for several years. And to everyone else. I hope you will extend the hand of friendship and sisterhood to anyone who is struggling with their identity or who has made a big change in their life.
And to clarify - Ankers you seemed to imply that JM was a bitter woman because she could not have children. (Unless you were randomly referring to some other woman) I can assure you that this is not the case. I was her antenatal teacher when she was a young news reader, pregnant with her first child. She and her partner used to squash into my not very big lounge with 4 or 5 other couples, sit on the floor and practice their breathing.

In answer to your question Grannypiper, yes I think online is very dangerous. I'm a writer and this story, which happened last year but the partner has just been jailed for 34 years, really affected me. Poor, poor woman. Loneliness really is our silent killer.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4255008/Why-bright-older-women-fall-appalling-conmen.html

Grannypiper, where do you live? I'm in the UK, so far I've made it this far.

nina do you really think that the main dangers these days are online ? You cant be raped,murdered or assaulted online but you damn well can on the street, in changing rooms etc. You can switch off your internet but you cant switch off real life

Anya I think what you meant to say is 'morning Nina, how are you this fine day'? To which I'd reply, 'morning Anya, I'm very well thankyou, I hope you are too'.

Retrolady that was a well thought out, measured post.

Bags don't mind being kept on my toes

nina you are so wrong if you think I spend much time anymore on GN though even if I did it's none of your business. I do however prefer to post early in the morning - the early bird catches the worm, as they say.

nina - yes she was kicked out, and has dined of it ever since. That won't happen in future, she will have access, big bloke with a beard will have access just because he says so.

The skewing of female crime stats is bloody awful, could black crime be represented by a black and white minstral, just imagine how that would make people feel?

They can't Sue, thare is another "female" rapist in the news today. What makes the Telegraph article different is that the male rapist Lisa Hauxwell has been deliberately chosen to represent our sex.the article focuses on female crime and the main perp HAS A PENIS AND IS A RAPIST!!!

I am sure there will be a big outcry <tumbleweed>

I mean women receive rape and death threats and are no platformed if they mention biology?

I think society is putting women <wimmin wimmin> firmly in their place. Sit down. Shut up.

Is this a male crime reported as a female crime? How can a woman rape anyone?

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/truth-female-sex-offenders/

At their own risk over here I'd say.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-woman-kicked-out-nightclub-7981968

(Their concerns being that these were opportunist predators identifying as MTT to get close to women, rather than the genuine article. The law in US has been changed in many states to allow self-identification, as Maria Miller would like to happen here, so any male claiming to identify as a woman has free range there.)

Nina - you think?

A regular Mumsnet poster was describing just before Christmas the 'takeover' of the women's changing room at her local swimming baths by a group of penised transwomen. She and others were changing elsewhere.

There is a lawsuit in the states from female prisoners who describe having to shower next to 'intact' transwomen and are experiencing fear and abuse.

A rape survivor in the States was told she had no right to complain about 'intact' transwomen showering next to her. She asked, what if one of them gets an erection? Can I complain then? She was told no: it might be a purely inadvertent reaction and the transwoman should be given the benefit of the doubt.

Canada and Ireland I think, def Canada.

nina, that's realistic thinking. Anyone will be able to choose their sex so anyone can enter any space so any man can enter female space.

I don't have a problem with LGB, just the T which is not a sexuality unlike the first 3.

The above examples are real, the prison is in the US and it is well known in the US for girls to be forced out of changing rooms or have to change with males. Male crimes are reported as female crimes in this country, today, in the mainstream press. Females can now rape with their female penises in this country, who knew!

This is happening, this is real, don't get cross when it does effect you.

Night night everyone, off to bed with a good book

But you can have more than one danger nina.

LSP which country has it gone through?

and protect women and girls nina, that tiny minority are changing laws

In America, I read that the lawmakers[I think it was the lawmakers] are taking most notice of the TAs. I will check tomorrow.

You don't think that's slightly catastrophic thinking LSP? Surely the main dangers these days are online.