Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

Frodo - well I don't know where to start with what you've posted - are you a man or a transwoman? You have seen the mysogynistic hatred being directed JM by some of the transcommunity I take it? I'll just take me and my ignorance back on my high horse shall I just look a good little sweet cis woman?

lynne rigby and ankers

My point was that if a term is in the Oxford Dictionary it has become an accepted term. There is nothing 'rude' about it.
It is not saying that anyone has to call themselves a cis-woman.
It's simply a descriptive term which distinguishes women who identify with the gender assigned to them at birth, in contrast to trans women, who don't.
No different really from describing yourself as homosexual or heterosexual.

Granmary18 I agree with you!

I am fully supportive of trans women to live their lives free of bigotry and hatred. However, that does not mean that they have the right to usurp someone else's biological reality. There are safe spaces that have been fought for and awarded by law because of biological prejudice towards women that cannot simply be identified out of. Recognising the history of oppression of women by men has to be part of the trans women's recognition of boundaries on their part. Imposing nomiture such as CIS and TERF on people that have a biological based understanding of sex based oppression as opposed to a gender based oppression is key to finding compromise

This sums up perfectly my position - I wish I'd written it

This is an unfortunate discussion. Of course transgender women are women. Of course there are many layers to what entails someone's gender. Of course there are people who are very feminine or very masculine from all genders.

Gender identity is fluid. Girls in some cultures are raised as boys until they reach puberty. Are they not women? Many women don't get monthly cycles and can't have kids. Are they not women?

You'd think women would be more welcoming and appreciative of people finding their true sense of self. Why do we hold on to what we perceive is ours and ours alone (being birthed the gender that matches our gender identity as a woman)?

There is no community more subject to violence and discrimination than transgender women. Get off your high horse and have some compassion for a very vulnerable community. How can we validate their existence and identities so people will stop fucking killing them?? Definitely not by participating in the kind of ignorance running rampant in this thread.

Without getting into the whole gender question, I feel this poses a wider question, i.e.can anybody truly empathise with someone else if they have not shared their experience?
Can we empathise with women who have struggled against prejudice if we personally have not experienced it? Can we truly feel the pain of bereavement if we have not suffered it?
I think,there are some arguments for both sides, but an awareness of a woman/girl's fight for equality is something anybody with a shred of humanity can appreciate.
Sometimes the experience may be different but the feelings generated are the same.
You don't have to be black to be against racism but if you have experienced any sort of discrimination are you not more sensitive to its repercussions and the effects on others?

Mainly it's bloody TA transwomen who are doing that Ankers - they also believe you can be a woman with a penis

janea. Who are the women or group of women who are calling themselves cis women. How rude!

Lynnie - cross posts.

I don't care what dictionary it's in, I am respectful with the words I use when talking about transwomen etc, always use the right pronoun - so WTF shouldn't they ( and it's really the TA) brigade not give us the same respect? Because it's bloody men defining the world as they see fit with no respect for women as they have been doing forever from their position of male privilege.

Respect the preferences of the majority of women who dislike it or the preferences of the minority that pin it on them?

Well, the term 'cis-gender' has made it into the Oxford Dictionary as of 2013 so perhaps it's time to start respecting other people's preferences in the matter.
Cisgender was also added to the Oxford English Dictionary in 2013, defined as "designating a person whose sense of personal identity corresponds to the sex and gender assigned to him or her at birth (in contrast with transgender)."
From Wikipedia

They have an 'I am Jenni Murray' thread at the moment - great stuff. And cis not cig < sighs at being so cross I am not previewing'

Lucky I wish it were just nonsense - sadly it's much much more serious than that. How very very dare anyone decide to rename women as cig women. Quite frankly it's a f***ing outrage.

Yes the stance on Mumsnet has really moved round over the past months with surprisingly thoughtful threads and much soul searching.
The I Am Spartacus campaign really took off.
A lot of those thoughts are being echoed on Gransnet too

Having read the article I thought how sensible it was. We live in a world gone mad when you cannot say 'breastfeeding'.

Lynnie - totally agree re MN. There are many posters there who really know their stuff and have really educated me. The TA community are really really appalling and a real threat to women and all we have achieved in the face of so much male oppression over the years.

Cis woman - FFS! - as they say on Mumsnet - I never heard such nonsense in my life.

I totally agree with you Rigby46, there are some excellent threads on Mumsnet about Trans Activists. It seems to be their aim to take over any space that women have fought for.

Well I absolutely do not accept the term 'cis-woman' I am a woman and a male who has transitioned is a transwoman. There are a group of mysogynistic Trans Activists(TA) who are trying to hijack this whole debate - they are not doing any favours for the mainstream transwomen who probably find just getting on with their everyday lives hard enough.

One needs to understand the terminology of the trans community in order to start understanding those who are transgender. I know of a trans couple, he is FTM (female to male) she is MTF (male to female) but both identify as non binary. Very confusing to understand-if they identify as non binary then why choose another sex to transition into? Even using he/she pronouns can be unacceptable to some as they feel that gender neutral pronouns ought to be used. People can identify as agender, asexual, all gender, non gendered, pan gendered, poly gendered, gender neutral, gender fluid and that's just for starters. I don't profess to understand all these but it's a far wider community than first thought.

MaryXYX I did with wonder when I saw your user name. I hope you are confortable in your own skin these days. ?

I have a friend who was born male, is now female, still married to her wife of 30 years, and has a daughter (and son). It's only through this friendship I can see the desperation of not being able to be who they thought they were for the first 47 years of their life. She's bought up a daughter, has an extremely close relationship to her wife, I think she understands what it takes to be a woman (in answer to Jenni Murray's article).

Personally I don't understand the problem with sharing a toilet or showers with someone who recognises themselves as female. Everyone needs to wee. What's the issue?

Why should anyone want Jenni Murray to be sacked, what she was fact not an opinion, how is to be sacked next , the weather forecaster because they state that the white flakes falling from the sky is snow ? Maybe snow upsets me and i cant bear the truth being told

radicalnan i am really confused how can a woman have both sperm and eggs ?