Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

I do not think that what Jenni Murray said was in any way disrespectfu

JM writes "the first time I felt anger". I consider that disrespectful.

Anger?

It is some twitter users apparently who want her sacked. Silly them.

I'm sorry but the term for a woman who is not a transgender woman is a woman. I'm not a cis anything!

SueDonim:
MaryXYX, by using the term cis-woman, are you saying that assigned-females-at-birth are no longer an entity, they are simply a negative concept?

No - I am rejecting the idea that transwomen are a negative concept.

Yorkshiregel:
there are real people and there are blacks

MaryXYX that is a strange thing to say. Aren't coloured people real people in your book?

Yes they are - just as much as transgender people are real people. Sometimes we have to consider the same "Not real" logic being applied to another group who have also suffered persecution.

Personally I don't really understand why Jenni or anyone else really needs to say it atall! People are what they are and their own version of whatever sex they are, from birth or otherwise! Just have no idea why some people get so exercised about it. A person is a person is a person ...live and let live as long as no harm is being done to anyone else!

I do not think that what Jenni Murray said was in any way disrespectful. We have no idea how a transgender person feels; but I guess they have no idea how it feels to be born a woman. Not having that knowledge does not imply disrespect.

I am more troubled by the fact that it has become unacceptable to express a view without approbation - healthy disagreement as the norm is what democracy is all about.

MaryXYX, by using the term cis-woman, are you saying that assigned-females-at-birth are no longer an entity, they are simply a negative concept?

Seems to have been removed now.

there are real people and there are blacks

MaryXYX that is a strange thing to say. Aren't coloured people real people in your book?

Ankers: The church of which I was a member for about 30 years, and excommunicated me on the grounds of "having worn a woman's garment" - that's in the same chapter of the Bible as verses about wearing tassels on the corners of your robe, and if your daughter is raped you have to sell her to the rapist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunstad_Christian_Church

Talking about practicalities. How would a transgender woman or man go to the loo if she/he is caught short in town? Should councils build unisex toilets or is that asking for trouble? The same applies to changing rooms in gyms or swimming pools, sports arenas, night clubs, cafes etc etc.

So you dont want terminology, or you do want terminology?

Riverwalk:
"I don't know of anyone who would deny facilities to genuine transgender women - what I would object to are those who are just 'self-identifying' as women whilst retaining their penis."
You clearly don't follow international news. Either that or your definition of "genuine transgender women" contains no people.

"As for this ridiculous term Cis-women .... a woman is a woman, no prefix required."
Ciswoman is the accepted term for "woman who is not a transwoman", and easier to say. We have been through this "don't need to use proper terminology" idea before, as in "We don't need the term 'White Person' - there are real people and there are blacks".

So maybe the jury is out? At least it explains what affects a child in the womb. As for the rest I am not sure that it is correct because why would you get a child that was normal and another that was transgender in the same family with the same parents,living in the same environment? I wonder if there has been any scientific research done in Britain about this.

Make sure you read the story about the two boys who turned in to girls by clicking on the link.

I agree with Jenni Murray. Recently I was in a store trying to choose a shampoo. Someone came up behind me and said "you really must get that one" pointing to a shampoo, it is absolutely fabulous. It was a transgender women. What made them think they could walk up to a women and tell them what shampoo to use.

I really think they get "made up" over the top. That is really what it is all about.

Is it ok to ask you a few questions MaryXYX?

The church - which denomination was it?

The seven members who have been murdered. So so so so sorry.

That is why I think broadcasters like Jenni Murray should be oh so careful about what they say and how they say it.
They should couch what they say very carefully indeed.

I dont know why or who said she might be sacked. And which rules she is supposed to have broken.
But the subject is a real one with real people at the end of it.

All of these can change sex:

all-that-is-interesting.com/sequential-hermaphrodotism-sex-changing-animals

www.linkedin.com/pulse/animals-who-change-sex-reverse-roles-cogent-wingman

Strange but true. Not the norm though for humans although I remember an African tribe who did, but I cannot remember the name of them. This is close:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34290981

I don't know of anyone who would deny facilities to genuine transgender women - what I would object to are those who are just 'self-identifying' as women whilst retaining their penis.

As for this ridiculous term Cis-women .... a woman is a woman, no prefix required.

A transgender person and a cross dresser are two completely different cases.

Imo if you are born with a womb and feminine genitals then you are a woman. If you are born with a penis then you are a man. I know that is not the PC view, it is my view.

I do feel sorry for children who are confused by over PC parents who encourage them to think of themselves as the opposite sex. I think this is a kind of child abuse.

So on the whole I would agree with Jenni Murray.

"I don't think a man who has had an sex change operation = a woman."
I am not a man who has had a sex change operation, I am a woman who has had a physical abnormality corrected.

"The dictators are some members of the transgender lobby who seem to be quite vociferous when faced with anyone who begs to differ - nothing liberal about them."
The dictators are the rulers who decree that women like me can use men's washrooms and be beaten up or raped, or use women's washrooms and be arrested. I don't think they even call themselves 'liberal'.

I have experienced the "not a proper woman" argument in the church I used to belong to. It wasn't applied to me, but to ciswomen who were unable to have babies and were therefore not useful for increasing the size of the church.

BRedhead59:
Fascinating subject - I've just listened to a discussion on Women's Hour about the book "Men are from Mars women are from Venus" and if we have moved forward in the last few decades. It would have been very interesting to have had transgender people as part of the discussion.
Sorry - can't happen as we are routinely "no-platformed".

This is a highly emotive topic for those of us to whom it is relevant - I have the names of seven members of our community who have been murdered this year just for being transwomen. The use of the "freedom of speech" argument to justify hate speech is already increasing the level of violence.

I agree with you suzied. Some people are born with two sets of organs and I see no problem with these people if they choose to have an operation because they feel more one sex than the other.

But most trans people aren't like that. They are free to choose how to live their lives, but I get stropped up when they want to have their birth certificates altered and so on.

As with most things nowadays, nobody wants to give up something for the sake of maintaining the good and healthy structure of society.

My interpretation of what Pennturner says is that one can change one's gender but not one's sex. If you're born with XX or XY chromosomes, no amount of operations or hormones will change those chromosomes to anything else.

Inheritance of XX or XY chromosomes is indeed biologically set as male or females Ankers BUT the influences of hormones (especially the mother's hormones) on the developing foetus can have an influence on sexuality, in its broadest sense; as indeed can environmental factors after birth. Add to that the influence of other genes whose purpose is still undecided and who knows?

Anya. Point 2 That is what I am pondering[not me specifically!] but about transgender people.

Sex is a biological fact, (apart from the rare cases of intersex people)

Does that make it a biological fact or not then, in that case?

Which is why I am querying what pennturner wrote.