Is Jenni Murray right about transgender?

When you consider the deaths from famine and disease caused by wars, holocaust victims, death by strategic bombing of civilian areas then people who die as infrastructure was knocked out. then there was huge migrations of people who died as they are forced from their homes, men, women, babes in arms. Millions die in war, and are dying still all over the world.

I've got a space for "rabid," come on, don't let me down now, it's my lucky bingo night.

Ooooo, I forgot ranted! <marks card>

If by "stop your whining" you mean stop standing up for women and girls then no, I won't.

Blimey, whining, I wish I had printed off my feminist bingo card as I reckon I'd have a full house by now.

Wow, Nina1959, that was rude of you. I haven't ranted anywhere.

As for your comment about the two World Wars, they were both caused by men, in case you've forgotten.

And please don't try pulling rank on me. You have no idea who I am or what I have achieved in life.

To be fair nina it's men who fight and it is also men who start most of the wars around the world too. Toxic masculinity is deeply harmful to both sexes, particularly women and children caught up in the wars that rage cross our globe, women aren't safe in wars or protected, they die in their millions alongside their families.

SueDonim, you're now straying into domestic violence, sexual harrassment, inequality, etc just to add weight to your argument that women in the UK are not equal. I am a researcher, and a published book author plus I do another job where I work with women every day.
We have equality. We had it when we got an education and became qualified. That's when we gained our liberty and became emancipated.
OK, granted we are a work in progress but men get paid more because they work longer hours. You're free today to rant your opinions because in two WW wars it was men that stood in the front line and saved Britain. Women stayed away from the front line and in doing so they gained freedom AGAIN because while men were being shot in their 1,000's, women went to work. Their careers took off and they finally had an income and freedom of their own. Meanwhile men lost their freedom while women strode forwards into freedom.
When men returned home after war broken and battered women continued to work and began enjoying a newfound freedom thanks to our men winning the war. This was only 67 years ago and in this time we have achieved more freedom than any other country.

Go and read and history book and be grateful for the sacrifices our men made so you could go on to be free yourself. Anything we haven't got is a mere detail.

That goes for you to LSP. Quit your whining and go and find something useful to do.

Omg, really?? Your uterus wandering round your body?? What a thought!

Sue, I think the term was coined as the old medical practitioners thought that the womb used to go for a wander around a woman's body and drive us la la. Now we just get called hysterical and told not to mention wombs as it's transphobic as not all women have wombs!

Or a shrill man hater! That one always gets me as most of the feminists I know are mothers and wives, it's so lazy.

As for the accusation of being a bad feminist, I have to disagree with that one. If we rewound this thread a hundred years or so we all know which of use would be advocating for women's right to vote and which of us wouldn't be!

LPS, I really appreciate your posts. Very informative and you've helped me clarify my thoughts.

And Yy, to hysteria! When was a man last described as hysterical? And of course it derives from the Greek term hyster, for womb/uterus.

I don't think it's the lack of belief by talented females, I think it's the continuous over promotion of unqualified white men.

Nina, I think it's akin to victim-blaming to say to other women 'Well, I did it, so should you.' Not everyone has the same depths of reserve. It's the same as people wondering why women living with violent partners don't just leave. It isn't that simple especially if they have children. Where can they go? How can they get money? What if their partner finds them again? Sometimes they believe it's better to remain with the devil they know.

You only need to quickly Google to see how women are still not treated equally, even in the UK. Women earn less than men, they are discriminated against in pregnancy and motherhood and figure far less in high level employment.

Women are still regarded as sex objects and told to adhere to certain dress codes such as high heels/short skirts in the workplace. Far more women are killed or injured by their male partners than vice versa.

My own daughters both have high self-esteem (one works in local government, one is a student doctor) but that will not solve all the problems of discrimination against them. They need the law to protect them, too.

Having lived in France for 16 years I think gender stereotypes and sexual attitudes are rather unusual in the UK. Though I identify more with UK feelings.
I had to go for an internal echography of my genital system, and was very surprised that it was done by a man. I was also rather worried because there wasn't a nurse 'chaperone', not even a female secretary in the building.
I was ok, but would never go again. But french ladies didn't seem to bat an eyelid about it.

Hysterical, another word only ever used against women, funny that.

As for women's shelters, it's already happened in Canada where these laws have passed. Jessica Hambrook, a convicted sexual predator gained access to a women's shelter and she is not the only one. She attacked 4 vulnerable women in the shelter, that's 4 too many for me.

Again male doctors, not a problem for me but it would have a huge impact on lots of women who will not seek medical attention if they can't see a female doctor.

I am actually really upset about the way some posters have spoken about me, I have been factual and provided evidence as far as I can.

You can see why women don't speak up, thank goodness for women like Jenni Murray who are willing to raise this issue.

Ana - smiling at the excrutiating thought.

SueDonim - I do see your point and am not disagreeing. I wrote an article about how women have evolved in the last 100 years and have a slightly different viewpoint.
I once read a book called The Wheel of Life by Elisabeth Kubler Ross. She said the same thing, her father tried to stop her from becoming what she wanted. But what really gripped my thinking was that she did it no matter what. It cost her but she did it. So I think for a lot of women, bravery and motivation got them a lot farther if they were prepared to stand up to any obstacles. A lot of women would have bowed down under pressure. But a lot didn't and they went far. Reading about these women has inspired me all my life and so I now have the attitude that we may well come up against rules and dinosaurs but pushing past them gets us through. In other words not believing we're sunk. I do accept that for some women it wasn't ever possible but since WW11, we have really turned a corner.

Nina1959, do you really believe that women have been treated equally and that the only reason women have failed to reach the highest levels is lack of self-belief? To go to the very top, look at the Nobel prize awards. Men vastly outnumber women in total (20:1) and in 2016 not one single woman won a prize. metro.co.uk/2016/10/13/none-of-the-nobel-prize-winners-for-2016-are-women-and-thats-unacceptable-6190870/

Can that discrepancy really be because women lack self-belief?

My mother, now 89yo, was held back from progressing in life by her own father, who demanded she gave up education at 17 to look after her ailing mother. She is a very intelligent woman and could have done something with her life. It wasn't lack of self-belief that stopped her, it was society's expectations. Her father would not have expected any son to do the same.

As for your list of two successful women, however many you cite, they will always be outnumbered by men.

I was thinking that myself, nina, but didn't want to appear 'sexist'!

Australian women's prison TV series. I don't think any man posing as a woman would last very long.

No. Why?

Ankers, have you seen Cell Block H?

Men who commit crimes can say they are women and be put in women only prisons?

SueDonim - Marie Curie? Elisabeth Kubler Ross? They were both pioneering women.

I think one problem that's held women back is that they were led to believe they could not succeed. But clearly some did. Amelia Earhart springs to mind and so does Condoleeza Rice and Hilary Clinton. So it's not that the options are not there, it's the belief systems that are being put in place by feminists who are still yelling 'we're not equal'. For goodness sake, we are! We always have been. Laws haven't always helped and men have tried to take control but in our Western world today we are equal. If we send this message to our girls, I believe they will take on board taht they can indeed become whatever they want to be. They're not going to do this if they think they're not equal. Self belief is everything.

BTW I have no problem having a smear (or giving birth) with a male in attendance - can't see the problem with that, as long as they are not pretending they are a woman.