Hugh Hefner dead

No doubt there were several dimensions to HH, possibly some were positive, but then again Jimmy Saville raised a lot of money for charity, that didn't discount the fact that he was pretty damn evil although I accept your assertion, Annie that the women employed by him chose to do so.

Is it fair to compare a man hooked on sex with willing young women to Saville.

These girls chose to work in nightclubs perhaps preferable to a cafe or shop. I really think we have gone too far in seeing all women as victims and not responsible for their choices and actions.

This was a time when wives couldn't have a council house rent book in her name, couldn't have HP, they could be legally raped by their husbands , these were victims not these bunny girls or girls who chose to live in the mansion.

I find your analysis somewhat simplistic annie re choice. What went on the Clubs was prostitution and demeaning to women - that hurts all women not just those who may or may not have a 'choice'.

Didn't hurt me, I felt sorry for them that they chose to abuse their bodies but no way were they victims. I think your plea that all women are victims is simplistic .

There was a knock on effect to women presenting themselves as bits of fluff, the Playboy Bunny being a prime example. Some men in the workplace could be very overt in the sexual appraisal of younger female colleagues, there was a misplaced perception that this was an acceptable way to behave, especially if they were in a senior position. Not all of course, but certain female images, Page 3 was another one, might have advanced the careers and positions of those who chose to take those roles, but unfortunately, their images diminshed other women who didn't choose to objectify themselves but got objectified anyway.

Pamela Anderson on news of Hefner's death.
“Thank you for making the world a better place. A freeer and sexier place. You were a gentleman charming, elegant, chivalrous and so much fun. Goodbye Hef ... Your Pamela.”

I didn't say all women were victims but that all women can be hurt by what he encouraged and how he presented and used women - that's not the same as being a victim. Men like him and DT ( and there are plenty more ) are disgusting.HH boasted of sleeping with 1000s of women - with that number of women clearly all they were was a hole for his sexual gratification. DT boasted of grabbing pussy - lovely

bunnys were waitresses,centerfolds were ,well centerfolds,covergirls(including many famous actresses and musical artists) were just that.
they all chose to do what they did,for money,for a legup in the industries.
i know a few and they would laugh in your face for calling them victims.
as one said i could make 2$ an hour in a bar,or 60 an hour in the club,got harrassed just as much in one as the other.

and the london pbc just celebrated its 50th anniversary,with another in consideration.all but one of the clubs in the u.s. are closed and more opening in eu and india.
he did promote all forms of civil rights,and brought forth many authors who we would have sadly never heard from otherwise including ray bradbury,william gibson,ian fleming.also showcased many artists.
yeah he was a creepyold thing but he didnt live next to me......
and as backwards as it seems the sexual revolution he helped create is why we actually have the powers as women we didnt have in the 50's.,birthcontrol choices,choice in general to
DO WHAT WE WANT WITH OUR BODIES/the young ones do not understand how far we have come/unfortunatelly not far enough yet.

And the men who played on these alleged victims had mothers , grandmothers, aunts who failed to teach them to respect women .

Women are considered under the control of men for wearing burkas, women who strip off are under control of men

clearly all they were was a hole for his sexual gratification
Hilarious A real 'clutching pearls' comment.

I know Burt Reynolds regrets his centre fold pic, but I certainly don't, he was beautiful

Petra, I did glance at it once ,ok more than one glance , phew

yes but in the states and england you dont get your head cut off for not doing what men think you should do/this is why so many of the woman are leaving their homes to get away.
giving up family and culture to be able to do as they wish.
the"bunnys" the escorts in las vegas all have/the option to walk away.
and if you mean striptease/exotic dancers as women who strip off/maybe in the uk they are under mens influence,but in the states ( unless you are addicted to drugs or had no one to raise and take care of you and are working in 3rd rate "clubs")its a matter of choice.
used to make costumes for 50's style strippers and exotic dancers and there were as many women(patrons) in the clubs as men,well educated,professional,family people, the burlesque clubs have always been around.
i also agree with the parents not teaching their children respect (of both sexes)

You don't get beheaded in Scotland, Wales or N.I. either ?

or australia/duck that boomarang/
or the americas

hope you are doing well annieb you were so down last week.coming up on the anniversary of dh passing myself.

(Grin) sorry cannot let it pass mimiro .

I am ok, still tired but it will,pass, anniversaries bring up so many memories x

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/28/hugh-hefner-pimp-sue-playboy-mansion

You may need a shower after reading this

Written after the man is dead !

Why would anyone need a shower after reading that link?

Obituaries usually are written after people have died

Anyone can write anything after a person has died in the full knowledge they cannot be sued

I've just read the link and agree that HH was a sleaze ball, no doubt about it. But I couldn’t see anywhere in the article, or anywhere else, that indicated that the women were held captive in his mansion. It would appear that they chose to stay there and accept that they provided sexual gratification in exchange for $1000 a week and a nice lifestyle. All they had to do was pick up their coat and leave; the doors were not, apparently, locked. But they chose not to. And that's the nub of it. Choice.

Oh really annie? I actually did know that

Fair exchange maryeliza for you sharing the info that obituaries are written after death

Exactly Cheebacca , the girls had the choice, victims are not given a choice

. I am sure he was a sleaze ball but to blame him because girls were not treated with respect by some men in the sixties and seventies is ridiculous . If blame must pinned to anyone then why not the mothers of these men

The 60s & 70s were different times, you only have to think of Saville et al to recognise that young women were often duped and forced in sexual situations. But HH never hid or disguised his intentionson, or what he was about. Maybe some of the young women were naively drawn in to his world but I've never seen or heard anything that indicated that they were never free to leave any time the wished. I have, however, read that some of the girls who worked as bunny girls in his clubs, said that they had the time of their lives; loved the glamour and celebrity life style and enjoyed their lives in that circle. It wouldn't be for me, or many others perhaps, but I'm unable to condemn grown women who have chosen to spend their life in that way. No one can ever claim that they went to work with, or for, HH thinking that they were going to make wholesome soups and knit tea cosies for him. A sleaze ball he undoubtedly was, but he was open and upfront about it.