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How do I tackle this? Help please.

(63 Posts)
chicken Sun 15-Apr-18 16:25:35

Here's a bit of background information first. My OH and I live in a large house in an expensive part of the country and the house is divided in two, one part for OH and me and the other part for DD ,SiL and family of grown-up children. OH is going downhill, especially in the memory department and I am beginning to have to take over more and more administration responsibilities. While finding out about the finances, which my OH has previously dealt with, I was horrified to discover that OH has, for the several years that DD and family have lived here, paid all the household bills for the entire house i.e. council tax, electricity, water and sewage bills, heating oil and building insurance. The only contribution from them has been that they pay the telephone bill. We gave them the half of the house legally ( foolishly), they both work, albeit in not highly paid jobs, and they spent the proceeds of the sale of their previous house on a holiday home in France. I feel that we are subsidising their way of life and that, in effect, they are using us and sponging off us. I want to stop this and ensure that they start to pay their rightful share of the bills but know that this is almost sure to cause an almighty row. OH is of the " Anything for a quiet life" brigade but I resent the thought that we (I) scrimped and scraped and went without all our working lives and , although we live comfortably, there is little spare . I shan't say anything to them yet (too angry) but would welcome any advice as to how to tackle this situation. Remember, we are living in the same house, and OH and I are both over 80.

Bluebell123 Wed 18-Apr-18 05:56:22

Please make an appointment to see your solicitor a.s.a.p.
For your own peace of mind, you need support, guidance and legal help on how to deal with the present situation and clarification on your financial position should you and/or your husband ever need health care.

cornishclio Tue 17-Apr-18 21:10:57

As you don't know what discussion there was with your DD and your DH if he has always dealt with finances I don't think there is anything wrong with sitting down with them and going through costs of running the house with a view to a more equal split on the bills.

If you are scrimping and just scraping by then I don't think it is unreasonable to let your DD and SIL know this as you gave them half the property. You have already been very generous.

Fennel Tue 17-Apr-18 20:58:19

Re-reading your thread, Chicken, you really need to get legal advice. About the status of your part ownership, and your rights if you do want to sell.
It sounds too complicated for us forum members to give an opinion.
But we can see why you're worried, especially as your husband isn't as well as he used to be.
Go and see a solicitor.

Bluegal Tue 17-Apr-18 17:35:21

I find this situation really odd. Excuse my confusion. First of all how did you not know your daughter and family weren’t contributing? Did you never discuss it with her? Or your husband?

Assuming you never had any money worries until now and you have a good relationship with your daughter why can’t you just say it as it is? Honey we’ve supported you for x number of years but can’t continue. Either you start contributing or we will have to sell the house (words to that effect).

I can’t see any reason why you should be angry. Just lay it on the lines.

I do think they have taken advantage but sounds to me like she felt it was what you wanted to do?

Don’t fret don’t sweat but time for some honest speaking all round.

If DD doesn’t like it well tough

Good luck ?

NemosMum Tue 17-Apr-18 11:16:23

Poor you chicken! I would be cross too! You've had some good advice about how to tackle DD and family, but I would also advise you getting Lasting Powers of Attorney for your husband if his memory is going and before he loses the capacity to make important decisions. Get both POA for Property and Affairs, and Health and Welfare. He can still make decisions, but the POAs mean you can act for him when he wishes, and it is there for when he can't any longer cope. I urge you to make it a priority.

Shizam Tue 17-Apr-18 00:57:14

Perhaps the adult children assumed it wasn’t a problem, financially to you. Maybe if you sit down and talk it through, they will step up to the mark.

Blackcat3 Mon 16-Apr-18 21:14:13

Hello chicken, if your husband is mentally impaired you might be eligible for either no or a reduced council tax...my mother had dementia and paid zero council tax.

ladycatlover Mon 16-Apr-18 20:44:43

You mention your Daughter has a family of grown up children who live with her - how old, and how many? They will be using a lot more water, heat, light, power (e.g. how many mobile phones and computers) than you and your husband I imagine. How many long showers a day? Mum to 2 daughters here, who when still at home spent ages in the shower! wink

I really feel for you @chicken. It must be such a nightmare when you are so worried about your DH too. Sending you some cyber hugs if you feel able to accept from a complete stranger. Very much hope you can get some good advice from CAB, AgeUK, or other professional help.

Nanny41 Mon 16-Apr-18 20:21:30

Times and circumstances change, and maybe if you talk to your family about the circumstances now that your Husband isnt as capable, they will no doubt realise they now need to pay their way, even if it comes as a shock to them.Good Luck.

AdeleJay Mon 16-Apr-18 19:49:58

My advice: research the situation re bills as far as you can; go to a solicitor or Age Concern with appropriate notes ready to explain; leave paper bills for utilities, insurances etc lying about at home in a prominent place; when you feel ready, channel your present anger & calmly present your case to your family who share the house.

I would have a bullet point list as an aide memoire. I would also ask for their patience/courtesy (in whatever way you think will work) so that they actually listen to you without interruption - perhaps over tea & cake?

I feel for you & I wish you luck. I am very hopeful that the situation will have a positive outcome.

Hilltopgran Mon 16-Apr-18 17:52:45

You could have a calm conversation with your DD about the future and explain that as your OH is finding managing money difficult you would like her to take over paying all the bills and you will then pay her for your share, say 50%. It would make everything easier for you all looking into the future and avoid recriminating discussions now.

gummybears Mon 16-Apr-18 17:44:58

Get all your paperwork together, and take yourself quietly off to a lawyer to figure out exactly where you stand in all this mess.

A tied property as well, that can't be subdivided. Dear God. This is absolutely one for a lawyer.

Magrithea Mon 16-Apr-18 17:23:32

We have a house that has a two up two down, annexe which from the outside looks like part of the house. We have to pay separate council tax/rates/whatever its called these days on it as, I was told when I asked about it, it could be let as a separate dwelling (which it could!). At the moment we have a friend of DS1's living there who's paying a small amount for utilities. I think OP should ensure that her DD and family are billed separately for their half of the house and bills, it may mean putting new meters in for utilities but better that than being used to support a holiday home in France!!

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 17:05:19

He who hesitates etc etc Sorry for that but how long do you want your present situation to go on
DH from your description is not in a position where he is able to deal with finances and you do not want to approach your daughter. A solicitor is your best bet and will give you advice. Whether you take it or not is up to you but at least it is better than attempting to sort it out with those nearest and dearest which can cause rifts if it is not to their liking. Been there. Hope it all works out for you.

VIOLETTE Mon 16-Apr-18 15:46:48

A worrying situation for you and like others have said, the best course of action would be to see a Solicitor ,..... The CAB may be able to advise before hand .... if cost is a problem sometimes Solicitors have free appointments so you can discuss briefly your problem and they will advise you the best course of action to take .....do this before you mention it to the children or even your DH.....then you will have an idea of what can be done.

Then; armed with info you could broach the subject with the children: You could explain that now you are both getting older, the situation may arise when you will need care, and with the preset arrangements you will not be able to afford it .......you could mention that it the monetary situation is too difficult for you should you need residential care; your part (or maybe the whole) of the house value could be taken into account for repayment of the care fees .......and tell them how concerned you are as you are currently paying all the household bills apart from the contribution to the Council Tax; and can no longer afford it, and would welcome their ideas about what could happen in the future if this situation arises ..... you ,may find that they have been thinking about this themselves ....how often do they use their French holiday home and do or did, you get to use it as well?..... seems a bit unfair if y ou did not !

think long and hard after taking advice and work out what to say and when .......very best of luck ....you did well not to explode ...Not sure I could have kept calm ::

grandtanteJE65 Mon 16-Apr-18 15:33:09

I would work out what the bills come to then tell your family quite calmly and honestly that you never knew they were not paying their share, but that looking at your household expenses you can see, you cannot afford to pay all the utility bills. Say you need them to pay a reasonable share based on what they actually use of heat, electricity etc. etc.

I don't know whether it is practicable to put in water meters etc, or whether you are going to have to suggest dividing the total by the number of adults living in the building.

I hope it works out without a row. Have you considered that you might need to sell up and move to sheltered accommodation or somewhere where you and your DH can get the help he needs. Now might be the time to be honest about your worries concerning DH and ask what your family visualises they can and will do to help.

Who actually owns the house and can legally sell it?

chicken Mon 16-Apr-18 15:07:01

Thank you all for your advice. I shall double check all the financial details, give a lot of your comments careful consideration and think very carefully about my next steps.

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 14:59:50

I know that * Sarah* I meant that if the DD flatly refuses to contribute there is little that the OP can do about it, as she has said that she doesn’t want the relationship to suffer and doesn’t want to go down the legal route.
Although the OP or DD can do what they want with their share - if it’s a shared house, what can be done ? Apart from borrow against it, which won’t solve any problems and will just create more.
I hope they all agree to the sum to be contributed and don’t need legal advice.

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 14:51:12

Sit up straight
Tennants in Common .ie both have interests in the same property / business and can do what they wish with their share.
This is why it is essential to get a solicitor/lawyer.

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 14:32:39

Chicken
Tenants in common of what.? Your situation is one that only a solicitor should deal with.

Silverlining47 Mon 16-Apr-18 14:23:06

I think 123kitty's suggestion is very good. Although the flavour of the original post was one of shock I can see in some ways how this situation might have evolved.
A while ago my OH and I set up an arrangement with my daughter that she could live in our flat (we moved abroad) but we'd keep a bedroom solely for us whenever we needed to return for business etc. Like your OH my husband is casually generous (and very likeable because of that) and we all get on very well. We paid the bills, she made a small contribution. After a while it was regarded as HER home and the dynamics changed!. Too many details to go into here....but I wonder if your DD and SiL accept the original arrangement and see their role as being on hand as you and OH grow older and become less able to care for the house and/yourselves and therefore feel the arrangement works for everyone.
Apart from the shock of discovering that you are paying all the bills I wonder if you have an actual financial worry or more an emotional reaction made worse by not wanting to enter an uncomfortable discussion and what it might lead to. These thoughts can be very stressful.

Jaycee5 Mon 16-Apr-18 14:21:47

You can still sell if you can get the tie lifted. You would need to get advice from the right solicitor though if you want to think about doing that as it would obviously not be straightforward. I think that it is a good idea to get the legal side clarified in your mind in case you need to make a crisis move yourself at some stage. You would be less able to deal with any personal or technical difficulties unless you are very clear as to the steps you need to take.

sarahellenwhitney Mon 16-Apr-18 14:16:42

Chicken
Do you have a solicitor? Your task is going to be one that requires legal advice.You say your family ' legally' own half the house. Please let the solicitor decide what is legal.
Make an appointment and take ALL paperwork with you. You will not be able to recuperate what DH had paid out as it was his choice and unbeknown to you.It is now time to put brakes on the gravy train You are 8o and do not deserve any financial a worries
Do not be intimidated as it appears the family reaction to any changes, which you are entitled to make, will not be met with open arms.
Again, seek professional advice.

123kitty Mon 16-Apr-18 13:33:36

Point out to your family that as your OH is now unable to deal with financial matters concerning the home and you don't feel able to deal with it, ask them to take over this side of things. Then tell them how they must let you have a breakdown of the household expenses, as you certainly wish to contribute. You need to get the addressee name changed on all your bills. Good luck.

Situpstraight Mon 16-Apr-18 13:12:14

Sorry chicken it seemed that it was all fairly straightforward but if you are tenants in common and your DD says no, then there isn’t much you can do about it.
It’s a minefield and I hope that your DD hasn’t borrowed against her half of the property.