Expectation that I will always pay

Hmm difficult one. We tend to treat our daughters and family to meals out as we are in a financially better position as they have mortgages, childcare etc and we are now mortgage free and although retired we still have a good income and savings. They usually offer to cover their food though and they do treat us occasionally. They are also good with money and don't chuck it around as far as I can see. They have high mortgages though, are paying back student loans and have childcare bills for our grandchildren and I remember how tight money was for us when we were at that stage in life. My mum also generally treats us even though we can well enough afford to pay but she says she likes to and we live a long way away from each other. We also do insist on treating her sometimes and always remember birthdays/Christmas gifts and cards etc.

I think you need to have a discussion with your DS going forward maybe when you arrange your next get together. Do you feel uncomfortable saying you cannot afford to pick up the whole bill and give them the option of choosing somewhere cheaper? I strongly suspect the meetings may be less frequent if you are no longer paying so would you be ok with that? No way should you be pushed into remortgaging.

I think it quite difficult, and whatever happens it’s a pity if resentment creeps in. When I saw my lovely but now sadly late mother for coffee etc once a week, generally she would pay. I didn’t feel that I took her for granted, we both knew she had more money than me (I had a huge mortgage etc at that time) and we were both very pragmatic.

I now usually pay for my daughter and her children if we go out for lunch or tea, as they are paying a mortgage. Likewise, no resentment from me.

If resentment creeps in, it’s very difficult - if you want to pay, and can afford it, then pay and if you want to pay half the time or less, to be more equal, perhaps say that your expenses have gone up, and you now can’t afford to pay every time but that might be risky if you want to see your grandchildren and your DiL is being iffy.

I know quite a few people who have downsized to get their children onto the property market, for some it’s been VERY successful, and for others it’s been either annoying or disastrous when the (now ex) DiL or SiL has walked off with far more than had ever been anticipated. One friend in fact converted her house into two flats, son and DiL moved into the ground floor flat with their baby. After five years and the young couple divorcing, the then ex wife evicted him from his mothers house. All very odd and disagreeable.

Do hope it works out ?

Oh dear.....it seems that old habits die hard!

Emm14,
The goal of every parent should be to help their children become independent adults. I get that you want to help your son and his family, but instead you have inadvertently enabled immature behavior and financial dependency.

As another poster pointed out, this is much more than just who pays for the next meal. Your DS is behaving like a child still expecting that mum should take care of him. He is a grown man! For his sake and yours, it's time to cut the umbilical cord.
He should be taking care of himself and paying for his own expenses, especially if he travels with his family. Whoever does the inviting to restaurants should also be the one to pay the bill. The other party can then offer to pay half or at least offer to pay the gratuities.

As a responsible adult, your son should now be protective towards you, not the other way around ...and I don't want to seem unkind. We all love our children very much and we all make mistakes. Some of us won't even let them make their own mistakes....but how else will they learn to rise up up again and carry on?

...and please, don't ever let anyone ever talk you into mortgaging your home!

I think they are taking you for granted. Phone beforehand and suggest that you go halves. It's only fair. Spongers

Their grasping attitude is the problem, not whether Emm14 can afford it.

Say NO to re-mortgage or equity release or anything else like that.

Next time they suggest a visit, tell them straight away that you can't afford to keep paying for a meal out for everyone - and ask would they like to share the cost or for you to bring something towards a meal at their home.

Honestly, dear Emma!4, I think you are going to have to have a straight talk with them. Just say kindly but firmly that you and DH can no longer afford to pay both to come and see them and to pay for meals out.

Before doing so, sit down with DH and work out how often you both feel you can afford to visit them, so you can suggest that from now on you will visit at the stated interval.

When you ring up to tell them when to expect you, tell them you will be bringing food with you to cook a home made meal in their house for you all.

Do not re-mortgage your house or part with any more money to them. We none of us know what life will suddenly throw at us, and you might well need your equity later on yourselves.

Oh,& lollee,i know you offered sympathy but you DID go on a bit exactly how good they are to you,probably making poor Emm14 weep a bit.and lakeview....

Yes i too love treating them,dont get me wrong,and when im a bit affluent i do so,but if ive had a few big bills for example,then i do compromise,and tbf i treat my youngest daughter as "shes the baby girl" as she puts it(she's 26 now .lol) but shes not my youngest and i still have 2 teenage boys at home one at high school,one in college,so i do what i can,where i can,yes it also is true that as they get older they become more 'money aware'-(or should do!)Even my college son is beginning to learn this now he drives a car- But Emm14's family are living beyond their means maybe? A saying my late mum used about neighbours! Its not up to her to help them sustain this! Good luck Emm14 let us know how you get on☺

O.M.G. poor lakeview! She sounds a horrible DIL! Im afraid if mine were that bad i wouldve had to say something&told her NOTHING would hers!! And yes as for OP,sometimes you just have to play it by ear i think,as my family arent well off at all,but are hard- working,they treat when they can,just as i do for them,if i want to pay i say - and if ive got it i dont mind,if coffers are a bit low then i say so.then no- one's left skint or offended.sometimes my daughter(middle one)& her family come visit & she buys a few things to supplement what foods in my fridge& cooks for us which is a nice treat for me not to have to cook!

Lakeview.......that is shocking. There is no advice that can help with such a callous person. I don't like being snippy but the only thing I can think of, if it ever comes up again is to retort 'well you may be divorced from my son by then so he (and any other children) will get it' Failing that, tell her you are putting it in trust for grandchildren until they reach 25. The heartlessness of some people never ceases to amaze me and I so wish I could lend you one of my super dil's. I always fell though, a lot of people like her are a product of not being taught better as children. It is quite easy to teach a young child to be caring and kind, not so easy once they reach teens if you have waited too long.

I am so surprised at the amount of people more or less saying OP has no cause for complaint and should happily continue to shell out if she can afford it. No wonder there are so many uncaring, selfish people under 40 in the world (and many over, including us olduns). If it had been established from the outset that the monthly visit was to be her treat of a meal out, fine. If the couple even sometimes put some toward it, fine. But the fact that they do not even send a card on birthdays etc I find heartbreaking and points to the relationship being totally one sided. Someone suggested it is not a pay back thing, doing it for what you get back. Maybe not, but surely any child who loves their mother (and father) would at the very least send a birthday card if they cannot afford a present.
I am conscious of the fact that I speak from a privileged position in that my two sons are the total opposite. They have wonderful laid back wives who embrace me as mil and are happy to share the grandchildren with me, knowing how much I love being with them.
When we go out to family meals they absolutely forbid me to even contribute (though I do try and often give the grandchildren generous pocket money instead). I go to their houses for Sunday dinners and they also come to mine in turn, the oldest 1 hour away, the youngest 15 minutes.
I am comfortably off, though not well off, but we all give each other lovely presents although they tell me off for buying them things or taking a bottle of wine to dinner (nicely told off) but always bring flowers to me. My sons tell me a card with loving words means everything to them and they feel I deserve whatever they give me for all I gave to them as they grew and during early years of their marriages.
Surely this is how it should be? I know family dynamics differ but if a child sees you as a money machine and never gives anything back (a bit of gardening, or D.I.Y.?) then how is that a healthy relationship. The OP is definitely being taken for granted, more than that she is being used and she must insist on it ending. Don't worry they will not cut her off, it seems they need her more than she needs them. In fact, I have a feeling they will have a new respect for her, rather than seeing her as an easy target for free monthly meals. I would cook a meal and invite them with the proviso they turn up with dessert (a cheesecake is £1 in a lot of stores). If you act like a doormat, everyone, including family, will walk all over you.

I would just say " shall we get our own?" next time they pick up a menu- my youngest daughter( single,no kids) tries all the time with all the family to 'forget' her bank card or purse- i do give in a lot as i know shes not got a very high wage- but lately weve compromised with i buy food she buys us drinks which is a middle ground? I treat my other adult kids as situation fits- if i treat the GC to theirs and the adults buy their own,or if a big bill including all of us go halves etc.or if its been end of month & theyve got paid i get treated too when they can afford.or sometimes i go visit&they make a nice meal.Try make some suggestions,if your DIL has come to expect it maybe she doesnt think you mind.Or say "shall we go to order together?" to your son-then at least he may attempt to pay for theirs,then let him!If you always go haring off to counter alone then maybe they thnk you WANT to treat them.?no i dont see mine all the time either as they live 40 miles away.im sure theres a compromise.If we had just coffees my older ones DO get them unless i say it doesnt matter though.

Once you start being generous it becomes difficult to break the mould.. They assume you will pay every time.

I'm going to go against the grain but I pay because my son doesn't his partner and my daughter and her partner have far less disposeable income than I.

When we have a meal out I pay so we can all be together and enjoy the food.

If they were ungrateful then I wouldn't but they appreciate my doing so.

Just met my son for breakfast and coffee and today he paid. He is not well off by any means but he treats me if he can. It’s a feeling that he respects me and doesn’t take me for granted and that is what I think Emm wants, just to feel appreciated. Next time just say your turn to pay and see what is said and you can go from there. I meet my son without the dil as she is another kettle of fish.

lakeviewwhat a horrible thing for your d.i.l. to say. Was your son there and if so what did he say?

It's a difficult one Emm having started a trend so to speak, to bring it to an end. IMO it's irrelevant whether or not you can afford to always foot the bill; appreciation rather than expectation should be shown. If you only see the latter then it's not surprising that you're feeling resentful.

As for hinting that you use the equity in your own home to provide a deposit for theirs, well I'm sorry to say that that does seem to shine a light on their true motivation.

Do you really feel that if you stop paying for these meals etc that you wont see as much of them? If that's the case then perhaps as has already been suggested paying for your own, splitting the bill (you'd still be contributing toward theirs) or eating at home would be the way to go.

I hope you get this sorted and aren't left feeling that their main reason for meeting up is for a free lunch.

If resentment has crept in, then it's time to stop. I think it's best to say before meeting up that you are unable to pay for lunch for everyone.

This may mean you don't see them as often if they truly just want to meet up for a free lunch.

Give it a try.

You don’t say how/when the arrangements for your next meet-up are made, but I would go along for the next arranged coffee/lunch and pay as usual. I would then say (before I left), that you’re afraid that this will have to be the last treat for a while, as money is now becoming a bit tighter, so next time could you just come to them, (for coffee & cake perhaps, even if you take a cake), rather than go out, and just see what they say.

I always pay if I’m out with any of mine, but it’s occasional, and we do all visit between houses as well, for coffee etc, and my daughter does cook for me sometimes too, so I’m happy to do it.

i may be a bit off the topic but i want to say how hurtful my sons wife can be
she told me she would wait for 10 years or more and once we are gone she will come to claim whats hers
i was shocked by her lack of feeling
any advice please?i feel miserable

It's a difficult situation. I know how you feel. If I eat out with friends we use vouchers, lunchtime deals etc. When we as a family eat out there doesn't seem any comprehension of cost. I don't always think it's the meal, it's all the 'extras', sides etc. Even going to a Harvester costs me a small fortune. I always pay, and it is my pleasure. I've always made it clear it is my pleasure to treat my boys and/or grandchildren whilst I can. If circumstances change then I won't be able to do it anymore.I too had small children at one time, a mortgage, so I understand that money can be tight for them when they have young families....and no one offered to take me out apart from my birthday! I think we are our own worst enemies, and 'spoilt' these children of ours much more than our parents did us.
I think 'forgetting' the purse could cause your family embarrassment if they were not intending to pay, but worth a try.
Could you not drop in that money is a bit tight, or go to a cheaper restaurant. W usually head for what I call a 'child friendly' restaurant like a Beefeater or Harvester, which isn't exhorbitant.
Difficult one for you, but feeling 'used' is not a good feeling, and needs to be tackled in some way.
Good Luck!

Knock the restaurant meals on the head. Do you always go out when you see them or does the monthly visit ever take place in the home? Make the visit a stay in the home one and just take a cake .

sparkly1000 suggests a picnic.
What a great idea.
Next time you are arranging to meet why not suggest it?
You could simply say, “There’s a lovely spot just near X where we can meet for a picnic, that would be so nice in this good weather”
And then suggest you bring x and y....
We meet one of our “children” and family for a “stroll and a picnic” and it works well. No money needs to be discussed if this scenario works - and it may just help to break the habit.

Mine started to share when they reached a reasonably mature stage of adulthood. Often lunch is on the same day as a family visit to somewhere with admission, so I would suggest I pay for that and they get the lunch. Not as penny pinching as paying separately at the till. I will assume they can afford it until such time as they ditch the cleaner, lol. My mother is a different matter as she always wants to contribute and we wish she wouldn't

Emm4.
Can you afford to pay for these 'outings'?.Is it a struggle to make ends meet and you are going without yourself? If so then you must make it clear to your family you do not have a bottomless pot of cash.If all they want from you is what you can give them what sort of family are they ?Put your cards on the table. Be honest with them .Their reaction will tell all.We don't like to see our children having hard times but it does appear to me from how you describe them they do see you as a money pot.Surely the odd coffee now and then shouldn't break their bank or why not suggest they come to you for a coffee or a meal now and then. You should not have this dilemma but sometimes we make a rod for our own backs by the kind gestures we make to our family. I do hope you can work this out.

I think it's nicer to ask to go halves saying you can't afford to pay all the bill. When you say you can't afford something no-one else can argue and insist you will. That works both ways.