Stubborn 3yr old Granddaughter

Greengran78
Thank you for your post, it made perfect sense to me.

I was in a queue at the till in a Budgens many years ago when a little girl threw a tantrum because she wanted some sweets. She was at the next till so not holding us up.
We all listened and gave each other ‘looks’ but were, I’m sure’ on the mother’s side.
As the mother gave in there was a collective sigh, similar to the sound that goes round Wimbledon when a player makes a crucial mistake. We were on her side and wanted her to win.

I would go over and speak to my parents, and reiterate that my word is final regarding my child.
Three bags of crisps is ridiculous, and I would not allow it. End of.

they made her that way they have to live with her dont get involved

gosh muffin thats a hard one. How close are you geographically?

Is a " pop round" type visit possible?

Sounds like the terrible 2's going on into the terrible 3s, whenever anybody tried it on me I'm afraid I would say "Goodness what lot of noise" and very little else. Depending on what the reason for it was I would pick up the child and hold it close and fairly tight the carrying on would usually stop. Discussing the ins and outs are useless with a 2/ 3 year old. As ever you did right to keep out of it.

muffinthemoo as you say mum has other issues and by the sounds of it you are doing really well, all the best for the new arrival.

If the relationship with your daughter will take it, you could give her "Toddler Taming" by Christopher Green, who is an Australian Paediatrician. It's full of practical good sense. The Health Visitors I worked with used it a lot. However, only you can decide whether it would be welcomed and read. I gave my daughter a copy when she was having problems with little one during the night and lovely but softy SIL was giving in to requests for playing downstairs in the middle of the night. Somehow, seeing it in black and white helped SIL to ignore night-time wailing, which stopped after a few nights of planned ignoring!

oldbatty

I’ve turned this over so many times, and truthfully I have no better reason than “but that’s my mum and dad”.

I know, I know. But, that’s the truth of it. I can’t get past “that’s my mum and dad, this doesn’t deserve being cut off over, I can handle it”

What's the point of treading warily when asked for advice?
Give IT unadulterated when asked.
She doesn't have to act on it.

I have a 3 year old grandson who is going through this stage. If you dare say no to him, he will do it all the more or have a full blown tantrum. Luckily, he is my daughters fourth child so she knows not to let him have his own way. I have found that sometimes, if he is screaming and having a hissy fit, if I copy him and do the same, he stops, looks astounded and then we usually end up laughing and he forgets what he was doing.

muffin, not being unkind but why do you take then there?

Oddly enough of my 3 children, only the younger 2 had temper tantrums (3rd was the worst) but none of my grandchildren ever have. It’s the oldest of my 3 children who now has them ?

Of course, if No is used constantly then it become meaningless.

Used sparingly then No does mean No.

No means No...end of!

Thank you, ladies.

Mum has a lot of serious but never treated problems. Dad enables her for a quiet life.

She is attached to the girls as much as she can be, she is always on best behaviour around them and I make sure they don’t have big long stretches of time together so as not to put her under too much strain.

I know her behaviour towards me will never change, but my feeling is it okay for them to visit with me there so they have some sort of relationship all together.

I just don’t want her encouraging them - actively rewarding them - to act out. Honestly I am really pretty easygoing, they are generally really well behaved. I explain why things need to happen, we talk things through, our home is a calm place. I feel like what I do parenting wise is working for us. But there are some boundaries that are not negotiable and at the end of the day, when I say no, I mean it.

She had real serious difficulty parenting us, me in particular, I won’t go into it all but she was always hitting me for nothing and shrieking. I don’t have a good model for being a mum so often I second guess myself. And the child abuse thing stung, ugh. I just wanted to touch base on whether I really was being out of order.

Advice? I’m about to have three kids three and under, I don’t expect obedience training
It's your mother who needs the obedience training.

Sorry if that is not helpful, but her behaviour is outrageous - she is setting child against mother and who in their right mind gives a 3 year old THREE packets of salty, high calorie crisps, before dinner or not!

As for shouting at you when you are pregnant - well, sorry, but they need a reality check.

Sorry, but I am astonished - I know grannies can tend towards leniency but the rule is never to undermine the parents.

muffinthemoo

For goodness sake your mum is being ridiculous. You quite rightly stop the snacking before meals even though she would have given in to it. Your toddler is tired and did not want to go back home to bed and bath or whatever so threw a tantrum. You calmed her down, explained it was time to go home to bed and took her back. What sort of child abuse is this??

I would ignore it. Next time you visit follow the same parenting rules you follow normally. If your toddler realises she can play your mum against you to get her own way she will play out again simply because they do interfere. Just stay firm and take her home if they are not supporting you while disciplining your children. Maybe take them over there less.

I have an almost three year old DGD and have witnessed the temper tantrums she has at home. She does not have them here but I have pointed out to my DD that she is at home and feels free to express her feelings and usually it is when she is tired and frustrated at the end of the day . It is normal toddler behaviour. If anything my DD is stricter than I am when I look after her. A tantrum is the only way toddlers can express their unhappiness as their vocabulary is not well developed and their emotions not controlled. A toddler who never has a tantrum either comes from a home where the parents are very controlling or they are an unusually docile child.

It is a mistake to think they behave at Grannys because granny is a better disciplinarian. They behave better because usually they are not there 24 hours a day 7 days a week and most kids behave better when not at home as they are not as relaxed with people other than their parents, even their grandparents.

I would be wary of expressing your quite frankly very authoritarian view of "I said no, end of conversation!". How would you feel if that was said to you? Just because your DGD is a child that does not mean you should not give a reason when imposing discipline. If safety is involved then obviously act first and reason afterwards but in the case of a tantrum - "No, you cannot have a biscuit because you will be having tea in a short time" is better than "No you can't have a biscuit because I say so." I think your DD and her husband have it right so I think you were wise to walk away if you cannot be supportive.

I have had a phonecall since I posted on this thread this morning. Doesn’t warrant AIBU but would like a quick reality check.

My parents let my kids away with everything. I know, they are grandparents, not my hill to die on, not their job to do discipline. (My kids only visit btw, parents will not babysit in almost any circumstances, I stay at home so do my own childcare, so they aren’t in a caregiving position if that’s relevant.)

But I have spoken to them both seriously in the past couple months about not giving into temper tantrums which are thrown on the spur of the moment because little ones are asking for something that no one - including grandma! - thinks they should have.

Example: yesterday the three year old wanted a THIRD packet of crisps on the trot. Now, everyone knows grandmas are a bit liberal with the treats, so generally I let most things wash over me. But we were having tea at grandmas in less an hour, and as an adult even I can’t chomp three packets of crisps and then eat dinner. Grandma throws a wobbly when dinner is not eaten, so the whole situation is just setting up for trouble. I put my foot gently down over the third packet of crisps, gma tells the three year old, “this is your mother’s fault!!”, three year old and grandma both flake out on me, whatever, three packets of crisps is too much.

Later on after dinner three year old refuses to go home, flakes out. H has turned up by this time. We take her into another room, calm her down, and reiterate that it’s been a long day (this is our fourth activity of the day, she’s knackered, its past bedtime), she can see gma the next day or the day after, but when it’s time to go home, she needs to go. She flakes out, she’s given one more chance to calm down and go get hugs before home time, or she will go straight home. More flakery, we take her home. She falls asleep on the less than a minute’s walk.

I get a call today with mum literally screaming down the phone that she and my father are so angry they can’t speak, we are defective parents, that was outrageous, it’s practically child abuse. I give her tume to vent her spleen and then get off the phone.

Is there even any point in trying to discuss this further with her? I’m mostly the sole adult in charge of two toddlers, I’m patient and laidback according to other people, but sometimes they have to do what I say tantrum or no tantrum. (Earlier in the day she had criticised me when I strapped the two year old gently into the car seat when she didn’t want to be strapped in. I told her I wasn’t even entertaining that. Because I am not.)

I can clearly see that they act out far more at my parents’ than anywhere else because my parents actively interfere to prevent the toddlers doing what I tell them. And I mean stuff like, “okay babies, it’s time to go home, dinner is ready” when mum has literally just told me to get them out of the house because she is tired of us.

It feels sometimes like they are just messing with me to make a point, I’m trying not to be paranoid though!!! ?

Advice? I’m about to have three kids three and under, I don’t expect obedience training but I can’t have tantrums meaning you get your own way, especially about basic stuff like car seats (c’mon mum)

Our 3 year old DGD has learnt that tantrums don't work with me or her Mother, regrettably her Dad my son tends to give in to her so when he is around the tantrums appear! I've told him that he will be putty in her hands when she is a teenager!! The only thing he is constantly strict about is anything concerning health and safety, thank goodness.

Grandma70s - he could be both!

Walking away and saying nothing isn't really an option when your daughter asks for your advice, is it?

IMO Luckygirl hit the nail on the head, but perhaps before telling your DD about this tried and tested method of dealing with tantrums, you should start of by saying that you realise that ideas about bring up children change, indeed we had different ideas than our parents, didn't we?

Something along the lines of "Well, in my day, we ignored tantrums. Giving in to you, DD, at the age of three would only have made you realise you could get your own way by being unbearable!. Perhaps you should try my method with you and see if it works as well with YOUR daughter as it did with mine. "

My younger niece's little son, aged 4 threw a tantrum in McDonald's one day, because he didn't get what he wanted. Greatly to the surprise of my sister, my niece and the boy's elder brother, my nephew, beloved uncle of the two children, picked up the child having a tantrum and walked out with him. After the others had finished their meal, they found uncle and nephew sitting in the car in perfect good fellowship - the child having realised that uncle wasn't amenable to temper tantrums.

When first married we had a neighbour with a little girl; sometimes the child would ask for something and her mother would say no; child then started to get agitated and mother kept refusing, then child would go into meltdown and mother invariably then shouted 'Oh all right then!' and handed over whatever it was. We didn't have children then, but my husband said that he felt sorry for the child - some things that she asked for were given to her, but at other times she had to go through this ridiculous and stressful performance before she could get her own way. We moved away but I have often wondered how she grew up, and in particular how she got on when starting school.

I liked GreenGran's post setting out life from the viewpoint of a 2 year old. Those supernanny programmes aren't rocket science. It's usually a qualified and experienced child psychologist giving some basic parenting advice to parents who, well lack basic knowledge. No offence meant.

Muffinthemoo - lovely to hear you have two under 4 and one on the way. I enjoy your posts and knowing you're young enough to be growing a family adds to positive views of your contribution to discussions here.

So hard to ignore boisterous tantrums, but that's really the best way to deal in the heat of the moment. Today's parenting is a lot different and some of us have learned (the hard way) that we should bite our tongues and refrain from upsetting anyone, least of all the children.

When I was young (and in charge of my own brood), I would tell them in no uncertain terms that crying and carrying on particularly in public, was NOT going to get them what they wanted. With few exceptions, this message (delivered preemptively) seemed to resonate loud and clear .