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Census Form - Third sex / non-binary to be included?

(20 Posts)
FarNorth Sat 22-Dec-18 09:57:42

I found this discusssion, a couple of weeks ago in the Scottish Parliament, to be very interesting.

It is quite wide-ranging over the topic of gender identity, although the main focus is on whether an option, other than 'male' & 'female', is needed on the next census form.

FarNorth Sat 22-Dec-18 10:12:42

Time alert - it's in 2 halves of 1 hour each, with input from women's rights advocates in the first hour and from trans rights representatives in the second hour.

Elegran Sat 22-Dec-18 10:39:31

I've not yet followed the link, but my first thought was that the census records details about who was where at a given time on a given date. If your occupation changes on the day of the census, or you move house, you don't record yesterday's job or address. Surely those who have changed sex, are about to change sex, or are vacillating back and forth between sexes could record which sex they are at the moment they are filling in the form ?

M0nica Sat 22-Dec-18 11:13:36

I think gender, for birth certificates, census etc should be entirely biologically based.

Squiffy Sat 22-Dec-18 11:14:14

Would it be too simplistic to just have the option of ‘other’? That would cover everyone.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 22-Dec-18 12:00:38

Monica, I totally agree with you. It's possible to change "the trimmings" but impossible to change ones chromosomes.

EllanVannin Sat 22-Dec-18 13:05:34

Passports would be dodgy ?

FarNorth Sun 23-Dec-18 00:05:33

A point which is made in the video, is that the census is used to forecast what needs the population will have in coming years.
If large numbers of people, especially young people as seems very possible, were to decide to identify as 'non-binary' or 'other' it could make interpretation of the census results very difficult.

absent Sun 23-Dec-18 05:47:55

I get really annoyed about the use of the word gender in this context. It is a linguistic term – la table, le crépuscule, la casa, el comedòn, etc. Once upon a time the English language did this too, but it was a very long time ago. None of these words has a relevant sexual link, like words in other languages, such as German and Italian: the table, the dusk, the house, the blackhead. People do not have genders, they have biology, sex and sexuality. That they may feel that their biological sex does not match how they view themselves is an important thing in their lives but it is nothing to do with gender.

FarNorth Sun 23-Dec-18 16:05:43

I saw a suggestion recently that when the term 'gender identity' is used, one can replace it with 'sex stereotype' to get a clearer idea of what is meant.

FarNorth Sun 06-Jan-19 13:44:30

A woman has been banned from her local pub for wearing a teeshirt with the dictionary definition of the word 'woman'.

That is considered to be transphobic because the words 'woman' and 'female' should also apply to transwomen.

(Transwomen are people who were previously thought to be male but who now identify as female.)

I think it is very worrying that this is becoming accepted.

Luckygirl Sun 06-Jan-19 13:52:49

GrannyGravy13 - "the trimmings"! - ouch!

I would feel starved of choice if there were only 3 options on the census! How very old-fashioned!

Bridgeit Sun 06-Jan-19 14:04:38

Perhaps include a tick box stating gender identity/ definition given at birth.

MissAdventure Sun 06-Jan-19 14:16:13

Maybe just all have one box for 'other', then we can all identify whatever way we're feeling that day.

Bridgeit Sun 06-Jan-19 20:36:26

You may not be too wide of the mark, MissAdventure.

FarNorth Sun 06-Jan-19 20:44:31

When I saw this picture, some time ago, I thought it was a spoof.
It turns out it was a real message from LGBTQ+ supporters, as reported by Pink News.

notanan2 Sun 06-Jan-19 20:46:07

I recently took part in a large scale survey by a gov body.

It asked my gender and not my sex in the section where they ask about protected characteristics (race, religion, disability etc).

So effectively sex is no longer a protected characteristic! We will struggle to address sex discrimination if we let this continue!

Bridgeit Sun 06-Jan-19 21:11:09

Just looked it up, Sex refers to the physical organs of a human
Gender refers to the identification a human feels themselves to be.
So perhaps forms should reflect this by including categories for Born Male or female plus a section stating Identifies as Male or Female or possibly both.

FarNorth Sun 06-Jan-19 21:29:38

That is what was suggested by the women's rights advocates in the census discussion, Bridgeit. A decision has not yet been made.

I think some trans people feel it would be too upsetting for them to have to answer a question about their birth sex, as they do not believe themselves to be that sex.

Bridgeit Sun 06-Jan-19 21:41:06

Well as with most things in life, changes gradually become the norm after a transition period , so no doubt in time that is what will happen.
Just as an aside, thats a lot of forms that need to be used up or wasted , so perhaps in the mean time a person can write in in brackets any details they wish to include.