The Great North/South Divide

Northernmost point – Out Stack, Shetland at 60°51′N 0°52′W
Northernmost settlement – Skaw, Unst, Shetland Islands at 60°49′N 0°47′W
Southernmost point – Pednathise Head, Western Rocks, Isles of Scilly at 49°51′N 6°24′W
Southernmost settlement – St Agnes, Isles of Scilly at 49°53′N 6°20′W
Westernmost point – Rockall at 57°35′N 13°41′W, which was only incorporated into Scotland in the 20th century. If Rockall is ignored, Soay, St Kilda, at 57.830°N 8.638°W is the westernmost point.
Westernmost settlement – Belleek, County Fermanagh at 54°28′N 8°9.8′W. Until 1930, the westernmost settlement was Hirta, on the island of St Kilda, but it is now abandoned; the island now has a military base, staffed during the summer months.
Easternmost point – Lowestoft Ness, Suffolk, at 52°29′N 1°46′E
Easternmost settlement – Lowestoft, Suffolk, at 52°28′N 1°45′E

I always find it strange to hear English folk talk about going "up" to London when most of the country go down to London. Just look at a map.

Coming from Glasgow we might have gone down to London, and up to Inverness, but if we went to Edinburgh (sort of sideways on the map) we always went "through" to Edinburgh.

Sometimes one Glaswegian might ask another "what are you doing tomorrow?" and the answer would be "I'm going through for the day" (no need to say through to where, it was understood that you meant Edinburgh).

I've had that heated discussion with DH varian - I say we used to go 'up to London' from the Midlands, but he thinks that is daft.

Mind you, if you look at an Australian map, then Antarctica is at the top …..

Don’t be silly, everyone.
Of course there’s a north-south divide.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=PT0ay9u1gg4

The Collins English Dictionary defines The Far North as the Arctic and sub-Arctic regions of the world! Today in Northumberland it's felt like the Arctic!

It is all to do with the trains. The up train was always heading to wards London and the down train coming away. Not phrases we use much today, but it was certainly common when I was young.

As a reader of 19th century novels, they nearly always refer to trains as 'up' or 'down' without any reference to destination. It is much quicker to say which platform for the 'up' train rather than which platform for the train to Little Balderdash porcorum, by which time you have missed it.

I think these terms were mainly used for mainlines. I doubt the slow train that potters along the Sussex coast between Arundel and Brighton has an up and a down - perhaps it has as you can get a London train from Brighton

Speaking personally, I'm finding it hard to give up the clogs and shawl. But the ferrets'll have to go.

For anyone who thinks Scotland is always cold and grey, here's a photo I took of a deserted beach in the north west of Scotland, not far from Gairloch a few years ago. The sand was so hot it you couldn't walk barefoot.
The rest of the UK suffered torrential downpours! ?

I'm a few miles from Aberdeen and there's no such place as the far North East! We're North East Scotland and that's it. We've also got a lot of land to the north - Caithness & Sutherland, Orkney and Shetland.

From our numerous trips up and down the motorway system, I think The North starts appearing on road signs on the M6 somewhere north of Birmingham but south of Manchester.

I do think there are regional differences between folk. Although I am originally from the Home Counties nowadays I find people down south not to be very friendly. I'm used to almost everyone here giving a greeting as you pass in the street, although right enough if you tried to do that in rush hour London no one would ever get anywhere!

I certainly think Scotland's different regions have different characteristics. There's Glaswegian humour, Edinburgh poshness, the Far North (now that does appear on roadsigns!) couthiness, Aberdonian pragmatism, Perthshire 'county' characteristics. All stereotypes in one way, in that everywhere has become so much more multicultural but there's an underlying shared experience, I think.

I just take each person as I find them. Everyone is different and
people move around so much these days .

JaneA that clip would be very funny if something similar hadn’t happened to on a visit to London a few years ago when we, who both lived and worked in London in the sixties, got lost trying to find The National Army Museum. We tried to ask four people: the first one looked at us as if we had two heads, said nothing and simply walked away; the second held up his hand, hardly broke his stride, mumbled “No, sorry” as if we were trying to sell him something and walked off; the third one didn’t speak English and the fourth, a charming lady who told us she was a Chelsea resident, offered to take us there.

Although I am originally from the Home Counties nowadays I find people down south not to be very friendly.

Perhaps that is the 'wrong bit' of the South SueDonim
People are very friendly in Bristol!

janea that is hilarious and rings true!

Varian you go up to London because it is the capital.

I have lived all over the country from Leeds, Glasgow and London and now settled in the East Midlands.
I have to say the countryside round here is beautiful and the people are the friendliest I have come across. It is the most underrated part of the UK. It is also one of the quietest.

I live in the NE of Scotland, like Wheniwasyourage, and it is remarkably civilised...we have running water, inside lavvies and sometimes it gets really HOT when it's bad in the South.

M0nica thank you for the explanation for the 'up to London' - it is always something that has annoyed me but I now understand and it makes perfect sense.

I think there are regional distinctions but many are fading fast. With the closure of so many local pubs the once area specific pub games are fast disappearing, and skittle alleys etc no longer functioning. To me the further near London I venture the faster the pace of life appears to be and the quality of life more difficult.

I feel totally at home and relaxed in Wales and have always felt so very welcome. I am aware of pockets of deprivation there, as in other areas. Scotland is just a far country to me which is feeling increasingly separatist. I realise many disagree with me, but I feel I have to say how I feel. Due to hearing problems I cannot follow the spoken word there very well at all and lip reading is harder too. There was also a fierce nationalistic identity palpable on our last visit which I believe to be the result of the 'b' word and we both got a little tired of hearing about how little London understands Scotland. Dear Scots, it is the same in many areas of England and Wales too and I feel we are all becoming marginalised.

I think that sums it up nicely janea.

To me, there is no north/south divide.

I live in the north now but have lived in the south, too. All my family lives in the south, though most started in the north. I don’t find any noticeable difference except the accent. Too many northerners have a chip on the shoulder about the south, believing that southerners think themselves superior.

Surely flat 'ats and braces worn by peoplewho don't know which knife to use to eat their peas start at Watford?

I thought the Welsh had such a reputation for hating all the English who buy second homes there that they speak Welsh so we won't understand.

Those barbarians who live beyond Carlisle all wear skirts with nothing underneath and play the bagpipes all the time.

Everyone in London is rich and frequents posh bars every evening while they plot against the rest of the country and steal our money.

By the way downtown in the US seems to be the equivalent of up town here. We always went up town to the shops and up to London.

By the way downtown in the US seems to be the equivalent of up town here. We always went up town to the shops and up to London

We go Doon the Toon up here nonnie.

Well that confirms we are different depending where we live Jane Nowadays I go into town.

Growing up in Guildford, I thought the north started at Watford Gap. I've now lived on the borders of Durham and Northumberland for 30 years and the south starts at Scotch Corner! It's all relative. One friend said she couldn't visit us because it's too far - but she went to Scotland on holiday.

We go south to visit friends and family, but I'd rather go north to Scotland and I'd rather visit Edinburgh than London.

When my son went to uni in Bradford many of the friends he made came from 'the north' but one was from Chesterfield and considered himself a northerner, so they had to move the dividing line southwards to include him.

Yay! A few fellow Neasters on this thread.....by that I mean NE Scotland! I’m 30 miles north of Aberdeen and there is still 200 miles of country beyond here. I’m 2.5 hours to drive to ds and family in Inverness and 5 hours to dgs in Wick.

Must remember to buy woad today.

The daftest thing anyone said to me was when we had relatives from Wales visiting us in South Yorkshire, who had never been this far North before. He said “I never imagined you would have so many trees here” ! It would have been ill mannered to ask if he had thought we lived in a desert of coal dust, pit wheels and smoking factory chimneys, and kept coal in the bath! We were pleased to be able to send them home with a far better impression. My DH regularly wears a ‘flat ‘at’ but he’s Welsh.

Perhaps the pigeons and whippets gave a false impression
Greyduster
Speaking as a Yorkshire woman I have to agree that some in the North ( yes, that includes Yorkshire) do have a chip on their shoulder concerning Southerners, a sort of bragging
Self defence mechanism I suppose. They will be the ones that have never lived anywhere else.I’ve lived all over England and never felt in the slightest that anyone was better than anyone else simply because they live in another part of the country, neither has anyone been insulting to me as a Northerner.