Family home dilemma

annsixty has a good idea, to rent the house out, to make his money for Care Home fees go further.
You may never need to sell it as the 7 year rule will apply.

Under 16 dla
16-65 pip
65+ AA65+

Are DB and I legally obliged to sell the house to pay for his care which will be roughly £1000 a week? Dad has some savings that will facilitate around 18 months care costs
My brother is considering buying my share of the house from me and will live there with his family when Dad has left the property. But would that mean my brother may be liable for Dad’s care costs if a top up is needed?

For those saying it’s unfair to not pay for Dads care....and expect the government to pay.
I have stated that there is enough cash to pay for 18 months plus care initially. It’s in the original post. Nor have I said we are not willing to pay. We absolutely are.

Am I the only one to be ?

There is sufficient money to pay for the first 18 months of care, if it is needed, and you say you are willing to continue paying after that time if need be, presumably from yours and your brother's funds or income.

So I cannot see the problem.

Am I missing something?

'Why should the state pay for your father's care?'
Firstly we wrinklies went to hell and back buying our own homes with massive percentage interest. We were told this would be our children's inheritance. (No mention that people would be able to access their pension pots, fritter it and the rest of us would support them)
Secondly, as taxpayers in 60s, 70s, 80s, etc we have paid for the care of the older folk of previous generations, subsidised care, council-owned warden-assisted etc. That's all gone, sold off, and the owners have to make a profit. Now it's our turn, and we are incredibly selfish apparently.
I didn't sell it all, I didn't privatise geriatric care, and I didn't benefit from our society's change of heart that all of us should be responsible after our old and vulnerable.
Lastly we have the tiniest state pension in Europe, but even when I was working full-time I wouldn't have had the income to pay care home fees.

I too feel strongly about this as I had to sell my parents home to pay for their care. My mother is still alive at 98 and has dementia. I do not see why others, who have deliberately or not given away their assets, should get paid for by the council.

"In France it is the children's duty to pay for their parents."
Yes, and I heard of one case where the mother of an english family went into a care home in France. The family had returned to the UK but the french authorities pursued them there and they had to pay in the end.
I'm saying no more on this as I have strong views, same as Mumofmadboys.

In France it is the children's duty to pay for their parents. I hope I have invested wisely

Just been through all this with my mum. It’s very complicated and only applies if, for whatever reason , the council is paying towards fees( which may be because the person has no money , which means the Council won’t get it back, or as part of a “ deferred payment “ scheme where they are paying for the care now, but will recoup it in due course). A “ top up fee” is the difference between what the council will pay for care and what the care home charges. Some homes just charge the basic fee, many others charge a top up fee. That is deemed to be the family’s responsibility and can’t be paid by the person who needs care.

Additionally - sometimes they may say you have to pay fees but that isn't always the case.

I think there might be a difference if your brother is living in the house with your Dad and it's your brothers or your only house.

I'd imagine any capital gains tax would have been paid when your Dad gifted the house to you both.

You might get more accurate info from posting or searching for previous threads about this on the mumsnet site.

I'm not sure why people are mentioning inheritance tax and the 7 year rule as none of that has any impact whilst your Dad is still alive.

DLA has now changed to PIP. Just looked at the age rules and it states if over 65 a new claim would have to be made before the 65th birthday.
I was able to have my husband home with me for 7 years before he had to go to a nursing home but he had a lot of other things wrong as well so may be longer for your dad. Good luck

As dragonfly says, if your father pays the council tax he can apply for a reduction by asking for the Living with severe mental impairment' form. He will, though, have to have a formal diagnosis and and be in receipt of Attendance Allowance. Attendance Allowance is not means tested. I don't think DLA applies for people over the age of 65.

Also, asdragonfly says Age uk are best too help you fill in the form's.

you your

The best site for you is Saga (see photo) which guides you through all the pitfalls.
As you father still resides in the property but it is deeded to you and your brother, you are both liable to pay IHT.
To get around this, your father needs to pay you market rent (and have ongoing proof of this) on which you and DB will be liable to pay tax.
There are other pitfalls so please read the whole article thoroughly.

Certainly you can apply for attendance allowance and if you can prove he cannot be left alone at night you will get the full amount. You can also claim for council tax paid as that is reduced for dementia patients but maybe you and your brother pay that. A lady from AgeUK filled out the forms for us.

A good solicitor I think.

Plumcushion Make sure you and you brother are claiming all benefits for your dad from DLA towards his care at home,we where not told we could claim this benefit for my mum when she showed signs of early dementia it helped towards daily care from carers who went in and made her lunch etc on the days my sister and I where working and could not manage to visit.It was not means tested I don't know if it is still available but I think it is worth chatting to Age UK.

ann my mum has to pay extra because they have assessed how much extra care she needs. I think this is arbitrary but there is no disputing this. She is now paying over £1000 a week and all self funding as I had to sell her house.

Plumcushion if you and your brother are willing to pay for your dad's care when his money runs out there isn't an issue. Why would they make you sell the house?
As someone else has said if he has early dementia he could well live at home with carers for a long time to come. However, councils are so stretched at the moment they will look into everything before paying out.

If your father has monetary assets you could always rent the house out and top up what you get in rental income with your father's savings.
That way his money will last much longer.
Beware of top up fees on top of fees, I am being asked for £100 per week in top up fees.
I am waiting for an explanation from someone as to what this is and what it covers.

For those saying it’s unfair to not pay for Dads care....and expect the government to pay.
I have stated that there is enough cash to pay for 18 months plus care initially. It’s in the original post. Nor have I said we are not willing to pay. We absolutely are.
No, Dad hasn’t been paying us rent as we didn’t want him to. He did say he would.

Has your dad been paying rent to you and your brother for effectively living in your house? This is also looked into too.

I agree with Anja. It would not be morally right for the state to pay for your father's care if he has given his money ( effectively) away.

Thank you everyone. That’s what we thought. Dad didn’t sign it over to avoid any costs, he just wanted to make a kind gesture.
I have emailed the solicitor who dealt with the transfer but am waiting to hear back from her.
One of the reasons I am asking is that Dad’s recently acquired social worker has suggested we may not be liable as the house was handed over whilst Dad was in good health, which had made me query the process.

Crossed posts luckygirl

What lucky said. And the 7 year rule doesn't necessarily apply in all cases.

Please contact Ageuk for initial advice - they are brilliant. And the Alzheimer's Society for advice on looking after your dad.