GCSE languages “too hard”

I think that UK pupils often don't see the need for mfl as the prioritize getting a better grade in subjects deemed "easier".

UK students specialize very early so a lot of subjects are dropped after age 14 - to focus on 7-10 GCSE subjects. Other countries do not allow you to drop subjects. For example a Swedish school certificate consists of 17 compulsory subjects.

Also in other countries there is a much higher expectation that students will be able to read texts in other languages at University - even if they are not language students. I know a Nordic qualified doctor who, at medical school, had compulsory textbooks in Swedish, Danish, English and German.

I think the harder marking talked about in the Guardian article (based on a letter from academics in MFL) is inevitably going to put students off, especially at A level. If you know you are likely to get a lower grade then why would you risk it? When you combine that with grade inflation from native speakers, problems in recruitment and retention of teachers and often a general lack of interest in other languages from parents, then you can see why there is a problem.
From the Guardian article:
"At A-level the situation is even starker, down by more than one-third in French and 45% in German since 2010. As a result, the number going on to study languages at university in the UK has also fallen 12% since 2013, causing growing numbers of universities to cut back or even scrap language degrees.
Part of the reason for these declines is both the difficulty of languages compared with other subjects and what many experts believe is harsh marking. This means that at GCSE, languages have typically been marked half a grade more severely than other Ebacc subjects. And the introduction of new GCSEs has made the problem worse."

I think GCSE's are now much harder than Olevels once were. But the demise of languge teaching can't be seperated from the lack of foreign language teachers
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47421735

OP: I suppose it’s outdated to consider that a good education should include languages

Well, if it is we have made it so. There is absolutely no reason why our youngsters can't learn foreign languages as well as any other nation's. I think part of the problem is that we are not exposed to foreign languages and cultures. When did you last see a good German/Spanish etc film on TV? We prefer the American way. I also believe at least one foreign language should be compulsory in sixth form education and at university. If you are bright enough to enter these institutions you are bright enough to cope with an extra language or two.

The younger generation don't seem to see the need for learning the languages the way we did, when I talk to GD about it she will say "there is an app for that Grandma".

Back in 1959 when I took O level French, the subjunctive was certainly in the syllabus.

There was certainly no subjunctive in my 1977 French O Level.

I didn’t even take O level maths. I had worked out that I could go to university to read English without it. If I had Latin and a science I would qualify. I did biology, which I loved, and got a high grade. Maths would have been a waste of time for me. Now, of course, I wouldn’t have the choice. I went on to an academic career - perhaps today I wouldn’t even be allowed to go to university!

I still have (somewhere!) a little book called 'Points To Watch In O Level French' which I took in around 1965. It covered all the classic things that trip people up, and I'm pretty sure at least some uses of the subjunctive were covered.
I swotted it all up and came out with the top grade - the only one I ever managed!
It took me two goes to pass O level maths.

Trying to make sense of GD's exam timetable, it looks as if the French speaking wasn't scheduled with the rest of the exams, but was arranged to precede all the others. Hers was just last Tuesday.
Well over half a century ago, when I did Higher French (in Scotland), only border-liners were required to take an oral test. Happy to say that I didn't have to, though I can remember some of the poems we needed to learn 'just in case'.

Mamie: no my GD had her French oral exam about a month ago, must be a different Board. She's started the exams proper now, with science practicals now behind her. Her exams seem to be spread on either side of the half-term week, which should give her a break.

I was so bad at maths that I was sent to the hall to do extra on my own.
I spent the time learning poetry by heart. Knowing Gray’s Elergy has been very useful for crosswords whereas knowing no maths has never hindered me!

I agree paddyann. The personality of a teacher counts a lot. I didn't like Latin but the teacher was a nice woman and we all liked her so I suppose we persevered for her. A bullying maths teacher, however, did for a lot of us who gave it up as soon as we possibly could. Those of us who gave up on maths had to do a course on practical arithmetic. That was genuinely useful.

I am sure that is true of the 1990s Nonnie.
The new 1-9 GCSEs are something else!

I can't talk about current GCSE French but in the 1990s it was easier than my O Level. I think it must have been the teaching because a DS got a D result but 3 months later was fluent. Since then he has easily learnt 2 other languages and picked up bits of others. Other son got A* but I think he had cribbed a lot of it.

French was also taught to us from age 6 Jane10 they used to wheel a TV in and the teacher taught alongside the TV programme on Schools TV .I gave it up in High School simply because I couldn't stand the Old Nun who taught it

.I know not the best reason in the world but she was truly obnoxious ,always poking with a pointer or rapping your knuckles with it if your head wasn't down when it should have been and she was without doubt the biggest snob I've ever come across .
.I'm not good at languages .I do say I can read a menu in a few though and thats all I need ,it has served us well al over europe .My OH hated languages at school so I'm the best chance he has of being fed abroad .

Mine too anno. ? Good luck to your GC.
I agree Franbern. So hard for them. No study leave either, GD is in school all day every day and still has the after school revision sessions. I agree that it does seem from a few comments that some grandparents lack a bit of empathy.
I think the other thing that the article about MFL pointed out was that the current cohorts are consistently getting lower marks in MFL than in other subjects, which can't be right. I know grade inflation from native speakers is an issue at A level.

We did do it at A level Fennel plus the imperfect subjunctive which I can confidently say I have never required once for life in France. ? I do use the present form though, especially after il faut que and expressions like pour que, but less reliably for expressions of doubt, though sometimes (to my surprise) it just slips out. ?
It was in GD's requirements for higher level at GCSE.

Mamie I took A level french in 1954 and got a good pass.
But we had never been taught the subjunctive. In fact I'd never heard of it until after we'd been in France a few years.
There are ways of avoiding it when speaking though. As with a lot of my spoken french, I try to find an alternative way of expressing what I want to say.

I am concerned that the current GCSE's are much more difficult than the old GCE's were back in my day - and so many exams for each subject. In order to obtain the E-Bac, students have to have a foreign language, in addition to subjects such as a Science, English, Maths (these last three are compulsory for all students to actually pass, otherwise they have to go on taking them (and often failing) year after year.
I have two g.children taking GCSE's starting tomorrow (although the speaking element of Spanish was held a few weeks back. The one taking ten GCSE's, is having to sit not far short of 30 exams over the next four weeks (half term week off - so actually three weeks for all these exams).
I took ONE exam per subject.
As well as the stress these young people 15-16 year olds put themselves under, they are also put under so much stress by the school as the subject teachers need to get good results for their own career paths.
I have already booked theatre outings for both these youngsters, shows of their own choice as a reward - NOT for any results - we will not know them until August, but for their hard work in getting to this point.
I know I was not particularly good at maths, but in Year 7, my attempt at helping with homework got me banned from ever again helping with maths. So, their first year at secondary school was beyond my knowledge.
I also feel so concerned and sorry for those youngesters who may have so many talents but are not able to achieve that pass mark in English and Maths - and therefore re-take time after time, (often still failing) - great way of boosting their self-confidence.
Do not understand why people keep try to put down the fantastic achievements of the youngsters with their GCSE's - they are so much more difficult than they were back in our day. Do these people do this to boost their own self-esteem?

Learning another language is like learning to play a musical instrument. Nothing good comes out unless you first plug away at learning the grammar (read music and understand how the sound comes out of the instrument of your choice).

Onc you have done that you can absolutely fly. Read books and poetry in the original language, play beautiful music, go to another country and understand the signs, the conversation.

As for latin - O level letin was the most useful exam I have ever past. Essential when bringing up children. how else could I explain why people walking in the pavement are called pedestrian, read Roman numbers. Read and understand the latin on church monuments, gravestones, understand the derivation of many English words and thus give them a precise meeting.

Perhaps if we sold the pleasures of foreign languages to children, instead of making them a chore, more children would study them.

Mine has listening and reading on Tuesday (followed by Biology) and writing on Friday. That's the AQA board but I think they all follow the same timetable.

Does that mean your GD like mine has French reading and listening next week grannyticktock?
Four weeks and 24 GCSE exams in total for my GD (she did English literature last year).
Good luck to them all. ?

I was helping my GD prepare for her GCSE French oral. They have pages of questions and topics that they learn, and they're supposed to have prepared the answers. They don't go off-script, so if they're not enetering the higher levels, certain questions will not be asked, and there won't be any "wild cards". Whereas in my day we were expected to be able to talk off-the-cuff, discussing (say) a picture that they showed us, today's kids are learning their. answers more or less by heart. This may give the impression that they are speaking fluently, but it isn't spontaneous, unrehearsed conversation.

Do you think the higher level requirements are basic Grandma 70s? I certainly don't remember learning the subjunctive until A level. My GD and I worked particularly hard on vocabulary and sentences around the subjects of climate change, population growth and the global economy. I don't remember anything as complex as that at O level. I do remember at A level being able to discuss politics at the court of Louis XIV and then going to France and being unable to say "the sink is blocked". ?
Have to say judging by a lot of the Brits I meet in France, five tenses haven't stuck too well, let alone the subjunctive.