Labelling children.

Dayone, you say in your post "Now this.....too much for me I'm afraid" "As for the rest.....shame on you "... I have to ask.. I hope this isn't aimed at me? I do agree and disagree with notanan2 but i hope i haven't been smug or offensive in any way, just offered my opinion......
Doddle and watermelon and other posters .. I agree with all of your comments and don't worry lemongrass - i flippin caught her!

Dayone as I haven't seen any of your posts before (sorry if I missed them) may I say hello and welcome but goodbye too as you seem to be leaving.

Why confused notanan2?

Same here, never saw your posts Dayone but here’s a little tip.....only post on threads you think are interesting.I have just started doing that myself, much better I think.
Many on this thread ( including me) have first hand experience of autism within the family, we have all tried to answer the OP.

I was going to say that as I didn't understand Dayone's point about Gransnetters not being supportive but rather being smug and totally oblivious of your own shortcomings and short-sighted and often malicious when several have posted about their own family experiences of autism, or, like me, understand some of the difficulties of family members or friends whose DGC are autistic.

In fact, I cannot understand why Dayone's post is what appears to be downright nasty.

Notanan2 I'm actually offended by your posts in that you think my then 4yo Grandson was trying to "touch" an older girl, what do you think he is, a sex predator. He was a 4yo little boy who has Autism, was non-verbal and doesn't understand spacial awareness and consent. He merely wanted to hold her hand not assault her, he is the most placid little boy you could meet without an ounce of malice in him, yet you are trying to turn this event into something sinister. As a matter of fact his Mum did ask him to come away to avoid dealing with people like you who can't accept that a 4yo child simply wants to play. I suppose your girls have never gone up to another child and asked to play. Shame on you. You obviously have no clue about autism and its many facets, perhaps do some research. If my child called another a weirdo especially one with autism or any other disability, I would be ashamed, not take the moral high ground over a 4 year old.

I always think when some people get angry about a post its usually because there is more to their story than they can say on a public forum.
Like i said i have an autistic grandchild and just wanted opinions.
His mum is taking him on holiday in a few weeks and although i don't like the idea maybe it will help her while they are in a strange place.

Bopeep
My opinion (for what it's worth) is that it is up to your DD to do what she thinks is best for her child; if she thinks wearing some kind of badge/t shirt to alert people to the fact that her child is autistic would be helpful then fine, if not then fine too.
It may depend on the age of the child too, an older child may well object.

I don't think a lanyard is a particularly good idea for a child especially if out and about eg in a play park, getting it caught on something is a possibility and quite dangerous.

Mealybug I feel sorry for your GS (and other children you have charhe of) if you dont get that it doesnt matter why he was grabbing her. It is her body and she has a right to fight off any unwanted physical contact. It does not have to be sexual and sinister before she has the right to body autonomy.

If you teach kids that their boundaries dont matter until unwanted contact is confirmed to be sinister and sexual then, well, you do them a misservice.

Consent is not just about sex you know!

Of course my children play with others. They are affectionate and tactile. It is MY job to teach them how to approach people (and animals for that matter) and to stop if something stops being fun for everyone

We should be rightly worried about approaching children on their own, whether lost or running away from parent or carer.
We could be accused of all sorts by ignorant people who haven't seen the whole scenario and we often dare not touch them as they may scream, especially young people and children with autism or ADHD etc.

How is a passer-by expected to know why a child is having an 'episode' unless close enough to inspect the lanyard or card as action in itself may set off another meltdown?

that action

Children are not normally body aware when they play.
In the midst of a game or running around, does anyone really believe that a 4 year old stops to remember 'touching' rules when playing tag or ball games or any child based activity.
It's all totally ridiculous and over-emphasised to a ludicrous degree.

Well good for you notonan for being such a perfect role model. How many more times, can you actually read? He didn't grab her or touch her, that would definitely not be allowed on any level, his Mum was with him all the time, he reached out to hold her hand to jump together. I give up on this conversation, hope the OP gets the answers she really needs from non-judgemental people.

In the midst of a game or running around, does anyone really believe that a 4 year old stops to remember 'touching' rules when playing tag or ball games or any child based activity.

No of course not as Ive said over and over kids will get it wrong and thats okay. Adults should be there to explain the situation when they do.

What is not okay in that scenario is how the ADULTS behaved: saying that it is more important for a girl to be nice than it is for her to be allowed to defend her own body/personal boundaries.

quizqueen - how much mother blame in your post? Good grief.

FWIW - locked institutions are alive and well in the UK - the NHS may be about to be prosecuted for human rights abuses for the way it has routinely treated those with learning disabilities and autism. There has been a lot in the news about it recently.

As for consent - my (adult) son is never going to understand the rights and wrongs of touching people. He has 2:1 at all times, sometimes he's fast so could I suppose grab someone. I would apologise to the person if there, if not his team would. He doesn't touch people sexually (one advantage of the vile drug risperidone is that it does seem kill sexual desires in his case, even in the tiny amount he takes).

He has had more people complaining about him for not doing anything other than standing there existing than he has touched uninvited though.

Anyone calling a 4 year old a weirdo is (imo) more in the wrong than someone who hasn't worked out how to teach consent to their autistic child. At 4 my son's language development was the equivalent of a 12 month old. Any explanation would have been entirely pointless (apart from to make some random onlooker feel better). So adults should be explaining isn't always realistic. And at 4 he looked exactly like any other 4 year old. So you can't tell from looking what a child may be experiencing.

I did used to do things to make the gawp brigade feel better (e.g. saying 'say sorry' to him when he couldn't speak, or sign or understand what it even meant), then at some stage I decided to sod it and do things that would benefit my son and work on increasing his understanding and prioritising his needs. So for example if he lay down on the floor of the supermarket then me telling him off would have been hilarious (to him) and I can guarantee we would have had six months of him lying down on the supermarket laughing and waiting to be told off. So instead I looked entirely bored then as soon as he stood up of his own accord (which took a while) we trotted off and found something really nice or had a hop skip and jump or something very exciting and rewarding (can't remember what exactly). Hence interesting, exciting things come to those who stand in supermarkets & lying down is just a bit dull. Would have been very easy to feel pressurised into giving the lemon-sucker's required response of a good telling off though. And had I done that I can guarantee that behaviour would have been ingrained from that moment and we would have more 'do you remember that time he lay down in <unsuitable place>' family folklore stories.

Dayone
No i am not ignorant.
I did not nor would i criticise anyones coping strategy.
I simply asked for people's input as to wether labels were a good idea.
A few people you included have gone off topic which unfortunately happens a lot on this forum.
People sometimes are so nasty to others when they know they can hide behind anonymity.

Nezumi your last post made me smile - about your son lying down in the supermarket.
Your strategy reminded me of an experience I once had. After I retired I had a few part time jobs with 'special' children. One girl, a well bult 12 year old with Downs syndrome (also diagnosed as autistic) used to lie down on the pavement when she was tired, or just feeling awkward. Her Mum had asked me to make her walk as she was overweight.
People passing by would stop and say things like get her a lift in a car, make her get up etc. I found if I pretended it was a game - come on, run to me - she would eventually rise and continue, with a smile. I don't know if a label would have helped.
Her Mum was an absolute angel in my view. I don't think I could have coped.

Yeah making things a game definitely the way to go. But then people suck lemons because you're not dishing out discipline. I eventually started to say 'do you want to stop the behaviour or not? Then you need to leave me and my training to it' and reminded myself that the people commenting really had no knowledge at all.

I think for people with DS the disability is more obvious, so the response from the general public can be different. Sometimes kinder, but not always. I know people with DS who have had utterly vile things said about and to them.

Although my son stands out more as an adult than he did as a child the severity of his disability is still often missed because there are no physical signs. In fact when 3 of us were taking him on a long journey and shadowing him very closely at service stations I suspect that many observers thought we were transporting a young offender, because the only noticeably unusual thing about the situation was our positioning around him.

Nezumi - However to my shame, I occasionally felt critical of the parents' handling. I never said anything to them though.
There were 3 other special needs children I helped with and I realise now I didn't appreciate at the time what a burden it was for their parents.
As someone said, we'd have to walk in your shoes to know how difficult it is. Though I noticed that usually you parents seem to love your disabled child the most among your children. And are ultra protective.

I love him the same as my others - the same amount, but he is so very much more vulnerable than my other children that I think you retain that way of loving that you have for a very young child. Also while my other children have grown away from me and established their own lives and complex relationships with others my eldest really has the same sort of relationship as he had with me as a very young child. Even though he now lives in his own home, with his own team of support staff and enormous numbers of professionals around him he still looks to me in the same way as he did when he was little.

He's changed my life and me as a person in all sorts of good ways.

Nezumi65 I take my hat off to you .

Our GS on the "spectrum" has a little bit more of my heart than the others.

Nezumi .....good posts.?

As someone who has 2 Grandchildren on the Autistic Spectrum and works with children on the AS, I am all for this.
The Children are not made to wear them, it is their choice, the new national scheme 'Can You See Me' offers children cards to carry and wristbands that hopefully will grow to become recognised by Shops, Libraries, Bus companies etc.
Airports already issue lanyards at the parents request that can be worn in the airport.
The idea is that people will be more patient when dealing with these children and adults.
AS for the statement that the child looked 'normal' that is exactly right, there is no 'Autistic look' .
Autistic children look just like any other children, they can have mega problems dealing with things that we take for granted, crowds, noise, smells, weather, music, so many things.
Hopefully people will be more patient, take more time and deal with them better when they know that there is a problem.

Good points Rielly62..