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Eviction by daughter

(71 Posts)
Spring Sun 01-Sep-19 12:16:15

Lived in family home over 30 years.
DH business failed/bankrupt.
2007Transferred legal ownership to DD who became our landlord.

2015 separated from Husband
I was Forced to claim housing benefit.
And signed a tenancy agreement with no end date.

2017 estrangement from daughter as she first took my ‘side’. Then her fathers.

2019 Daughter now evicting me.
(Encouraged by her father who has been after the equity in the ‘family home’ since we separated’
I have been told by the lawyer she has every legal right to evict me as she is the owner.
Refuses all communication except through lawyers, which reads very aggressive and is consistent re my eviction. She denies any life tenancy to me.

Im heartbroken re the estrangement and now this.
I will never get over the loss, hurt & betrayal. I see no future

Dee1012 Wed 04-Sep-19 10:39:56

I'm not going to comment on your daughter's behaviour towards you as I think it's appalling..I can't imagine your distress.
However, I really don't think that it's irrelevant that landlord and tenant law was disregarded by her and I'm sure you could use this in some way?
I really would urge you to speak with Shelter and ensure you give them this information.

Spring Wed 04-Sep-19 08:46:57

Thank you to all who have replied.
My sole reason for posting was my utter grief at the estrangement from my daughter and despair at what she was doing now.

I was surprised how OP seemed to focus on my exH bankruptcy (which was paid in full), and HB payments (which was overseen by my DD’s HB manager). Which I referred to for background info but which only served to confuse the issue. Apologies.

I have been served with a notice to quit. Stating my Dd wants to live in the property.
Every one of the professionals I have dealt with has told me I will be evicted on that ground alone.
My DD/LL has never carried out any LL legal requirements ie safety certs, no deposit taken etc etc. And has never financed the mortgage from her own pocket. All irrelevant.

I have read up on eviction procedures. Hence I am on local council & association housing lists as ‘homeless’ but not priority homeless until my eviction hearing and eviction date is granted to DD.

GillT57 Tue 03-Sep-19 12:24:30

Very sorry to hear about the situation that your daughter has chosen to put you in, terrible thing to do. But, I am wondering about this situation with your husband's bankruptcy, his share of equity etc., maybe I have misunderstood, or maybe it is not my concern, but it does look as if this was done to evade payment to creditors, in which case I would suggest consulting a solicitor because this could open a whole new can of worms, the implications of which could be professionally catastrophic for your housing officer daughter.

FarNorth Tue 03-Sep-19 12:03:13

it is better to let the local authority make plans ahead of your homelessness.

Possibly this is what Spring has done and is what she meant by being 'on the list'.

I think Spring is less concerned with fighting the eviction, as long as she gets somewhere else to stay, and more concerned that her daughter has turned against her.

It doesn't seem there's anything to be done about the daughter's attitude, even if Spring were to leave the house immediately. (Which she should not do, of course.)

Loislovesstewie Tue 03-Sep-19 07:45:06

Tartlet if the situation where you live/work is that a notice is accepted as being evidence of homelessness then that is fine, but in large parts of the country that is not the case. In fact the advice given on Shelter's website is that the tenant should await the possession order and maybe even the bailiffs warrant. Specific mention is made that failing do do so could result in a finding of intentionality. We don't know if a S8 notice was served which is a defensible action, neither do we know if the S21 is valid as the law on when/if a S21 can be served is quite specific.

I was a homeless officer for over 25 years, as well as working in other housing roles for a considerable time ; we would regularly find applicants to be intentionally homeless because they had left a tenancy without making suitable arrangements for accommodation and just presuming that the local authority would agree with those actions. Sometimes the tenant just handed the keys to the landlord when the notice was served , sometimes even after advice from their caseworker they still decided to terminate the tenancy.
Being 'accepted onto the homeless list ' may mean different things. Has Spring applied but not had a decision letter ?
Has she had written notification that she is eligible, homeless in priority need, not homeless intentionally and with a local connection?
She will in any case have been given advice by her caseworker and should follow that advice to the letter.

I am just concerned that anyone else in a similar situation could worsen their circumstances by leaving prior to a possession order being granted to the landlord.
As an aside it was always a nightmare if an applicant just arrived 'homeless today ' particularly when this could have been avoided. Finding interim accommodation, storage for possessions, people would arrive with dogs,cats other pets, in one case a crocodile(!) , another a horse, crying children , then they would complain about the length of time it took to sort them out. Genuine emergencies are different of course , but it is better to let the local authority make plans ahead of your homelessness.

Tartlet Mon 02-Sep-19 21:18:16

I think it’s wrong because it runs contrary to all my experience working in homeless housing in a voluntary capacity covering three council areas. Spring says that she’s been accepted onto the council’s homeless list so she must have passed whatever criteria the council is applying.

If your experience is different it may be that the councils involved have different criteria perhaps because of different policies or availability of emergency housing.

Loislovesstewie Mon 02-Sep-19 20:47:08

Tartlet, why do you think the advice is wrong? We don't know what sort of notice has been served, neither do we know what advice has been given by the housing officer dealing with the homeless application. FWIW I always advised the tenant to await a court order UNLESS it had been agreed for some reason that there was an overwhelming reason not to. Sometimes there were reasons to agree that the applicant was homeless before a court order was obtained; sometimes it was essential that a court order was obtained. We don't know the circumstances so should not give advice which could be detrimental to the tenant .

M0nica Mon 02-Sep-19 20:27:26

Spring I feel so sorry for you, you must feel utterly betrayed. Allow yourself a month or so to sink under the misery of all that is happened, but having done that, start to take small steps forward to plan for a new, changed future ahead of you.

I assume you are over retirement age. You should qualify for a small cheltered flat. There are many charities, Hanover Trust and Anchor among them that own and run blocks of sheltered housing for older people.

Afer the experience you have had, to be in accommodation with a certain amount of social support and personal protection may well be helpful.

Tartlet Mon 02-Sep-19 20:07:44

The advice not to move out to comply with the eviction notice because the council will consider you to have made yourself intentionally homeless is wrong.

Dee1012 Mon 02-Sep-19 17:33:55

The situation with your daughter is horrendous and I can appreciate your distress.
I do think that you need to look at getting a second legal opinion...Shelter are very good or look for a solicitor who specialises in property/ housing law.
If your equity provided the deposit for the mortgage and you can show the transfer, likewise money for the mortgage, it may be that you can claim that.
It won't help your estrangement but may assist with housing costs.

CassieJ Mon 02-Sep-19 16:04:03

Contact shelter ASAP. Do not move out even when the eviction notice is up. To do this the council won't help you as they class you making yourself intentionally homeless.
As she is your landlord has she followed all rules regarding renting? Was the deposit protected, is the gas certificate up to date? If no to these, then she can't serve a section 21 until they are sorted.
I am really sorry you are going through this. I rent, and it is horrible when landlord wants you out [ I have to move this week ], but even worse when it is a family member.

If you are on facebook join tenancy matters UK. They are experts and give very good advice.

Loislovesstewie Mon 02-Sep-19 15:42:26

BTW I have read the latest rules re s21 notices and I can't find anywhere that says the tenant can't be evicted. There are rules about revenge evictions, which is only right and proper, but if the original term has come to an end and is now a statutory periodic tenancy then there is little that can be done. If the tenant has not paid rent then a S8 notice would be served and a court order on those grounds would have to be obtained.

merlotgran Mon 02-Sep-19 15:09:01

That's exactly what I was thinking, Tartlet.

Tartlet Mon 02-Sep-19 14:01:59

I don't understand how equity release could have been used to settle debts because that would have left a debt owed to the equity release company. Surely that debt would have had to be repaid before the house could have been transferred to the daughter?

Loislovesstewie Mon 02-Sep-19 12:43:31

I am going to confess that I spent many years as a homeless officer. I also spent many years telling people that once anyone enters into a business arrangement with a friend/relative then it must be viewed entirely as a business arrangement. I am afraid that the two just don't mix. I have been told many times that promises were made about exactly this sort of situation , but then circumstances would change; the landlord wants to sell or needs the property for their own use and the tenant has to go.

I also confess that often things weren't quite as first presented and a bit of digging showed that the situation was actually different; people often hear what they want to hear but unfortunately unless written in tablets of stone verbal promises don't count for much.

I asked about the type of tenancy as I am of the belief that the daughter can repossess, unless there is anything in any legal document elsewhere which overrides the general law on tenancies.

I am not unsympathetic but it seems to me that it was a recipe for disaster from the beginning. And remember we have only one side of the story.

FarNorth Mon 02-Sep-19 10:43:16

I just do not see how I will ever get over the loss and upset of the estrangement with my daughter.

It seems, though, that Spring is mostly concerned about the bad relationship with her daughter.

It doesn't seem as if anything can be done about this, as daughter is set on getting Spring out of the house and is going about it in such a hurtful way.

FarNorth Mon 02-Sep-19 10:34:15

2007 Transferred legal ownership to DD who became our landlord.

Was this a gift?
Did daughter get a mortgage to buy it but parents made the payments?

We are asking about these things because they are all part of the OP's problem situation.

Riverwalk Mon 02-Sep-19 10:16:30

The OP has already seen a lawyer.

Posters have shown compassion that her daughter is evicting her own mother, just questioning how this giving the property to the daughter came about. It was obviously to prevent it being seized at some later date by potential creditors - why else would you give your home away?

The OP and ex husband played the system and unfortunately got burned, badly, by their own daughter.

Dolcelatte Mon 02-Sep-19 10:01:32

If you have made mortgage payments, you may be entitled to an interest in the property. I would recommend that you seek legal advice as soon as possible.

MissAdventure Mon 02-Sep-19 09:43:00

I think people are questioning it because they wonder if the daughters behaviour as a landlord has been suspect, since she would be very aware, given her job.

WadesNan Mon 02-Sep-19 09:37:09

Those questioning how the husbands share of the house could be used to pay off debts - have you never heard of equity release?

Someone starts a thread basically opening her heart about the pain she is suffering and all some can do is question why she received Housing Benefit.

Fortunately others have some compassion and have offered some very good advice

GabriellaG54 Mon 02-Sep-19 09:29:46

Rules were recently changed re landlord bring able to use section 21 to evict.
They have to either:
1) Be selling the house and PROVE that they are doing so because they want to live there themselves or
2) You have defaulted on rent
Daughter will have to take it to court..
Ring CAB for all the latest on your rights as a tenant.
She cannot just evict you.

Anniebach Mon 02-Sep-19 08:45:52

I wanted to rent a property from a member of my family to
move on health grounds, no way could I get help with the rent.

Loislovesstewie Mon 02-Sep-19 05:59:31

As others have said , I think you were very lucky to get HB. At one point HB would not have been paid if the tenant was the former owner of the property. I assume that HB has actually paid the mortgage payments?

Tartlet Mon 02-Sep-19 01:40:30

In my experience, councils will still pay housing benefit if the landlord is a family member but only if they are satisfied that it is a proper tenancy and not a manufactured one.

If they knew the circumstances here (ie., that the property had been transferred from Spring to get daughter) I think any council would be reluctant to accept a housing benefit claim, but it seems that they did and I can’t really understand that.

I still don’t understand how equity can be used to pay debts without the house being sold. Unless a second mortgage was taken out and I can’t see a bankrupt person getting one.