I'm trying to save our planet

Watched a programme last night about people who spend about a million dollars on their wedding day! One couple went from Hong Kong I think to Bali, plus hundreds of guests, the wine glasses, cutlery, crockery, the whole caboodle, was shipped over too. The wedding planner woman said they were all brand new for each couple, so I imagine they were ditched afterwards. And goodness knows what the flowers cost as they were the most expensive item, so expect they came from all over the globe.
The couples were all mega rich Chinese families, and huge weddings were par for the course.

Are biodegradable swing bin liners available (at reasonable cost)? I have only seen small caddy types.

I try to avoid all single use plastics, but the stuff is everywhere. I was horrified to discover even teabags have the wretched stuff.

Unfortunately, living in a village with no transport or gas, I do get through a fair bit of petrol and heating oil, but there isn’t really any alternative.

Calendargirl I have seen similar programmes about the extremely rich, their weddings and the obscene spending involved. It makes our efforts detailed above look pointless. However, I try to put these ghastly people out of my mind, and think locally, try to put as little as possible out for rubbish collection which will go to landfill, try to recycle as much as I can, and only buy what I need. Hard though, when these vulgar exhibitions of spending are seen by some as something to be aimed for, I wonder how much recycling the Kardashians do?

Anyone given up meat and fish in order to save the planet? Listening to BBC R4 More or Less they investigated the 'Sunday joint is the same as a Transatlantic flight' quote and decided it was closer to an air round-trip to Tenerife.

That’s still quite a lot

Save the planet, only have one child.

Depends where your meat comes from - and a radio programme is bound to use the most wasteful form of meat production. for a programme.

If you buy meat from British Farmers who are members of Pasture for Life www.pastureforlife.org/certification/the-pasture-for-life-standards/ you are buying meat from cattle that have been reared on pasure only and hay from the farms rearing them. No soya, no grains, no equivalent of a transatlantic flight or one to Tenerife. In fact the grass land helps to capture and lock in carbon.

If we go back to eating meat in the portion sizes we had 50 years ago we wouldn't need intensively reared. We worked on 4 ounces (114 grams?) per person when I was at school. We still work to that measure and frequently have less. Good quality, locally raised, outdoor beef does not harm the environment. Over intensively reared, indoor and fed on soya etc beef in Brazilian cattle lots does.

www.pastureforlife.org/profile/B168

I can vouch for their meat!!

Nfk Is the average meat portion now larger than 4oz? I mean in the home rather than when eating out.

I now bulk out all casseroles and stews, which is what we mainly eat, with lots of vegetables so that our meat portion size is almost down to 2 ozs. The only exception is things like an occasional pork chop. My standard size for a chicken portion is a boned thigh rather than buying breasts or other big pieces (unless for sharing).

Eating a large portion of meat now gives me indigestion as my system just isn't used to it.

I might add, reducing portion size means being able to affod top quality meat, which means that a small portion in a stew results in a stew that is as tasty and meaty as a dish with twice the quantity of poorer quality meat.

quiz Queen Fri 11-Oct-19 19:11:17
Save the planet, only have one child
Bit late in the day for that advice- should I perhaps try to rehome my other 2 or have them adopted at 42 and 38 ?

I've never bought wipes, kitchen roll, foil or clingfilm. I've always thought that they're a waste of money. I don't like plastic anything, either, so food goes back in the fridge in saucepans or bowls with a plate on top.

One daughter uses facecloths and washable nappies, is strictly vegan and travels by train. She grows luffas so never needs washing up sponges. The rest of us are relative 'failures', really, as vegetarians who make occasional use of cars!

You've taught me something there, Hetty - I had no idea that it was possible to grow loofas in the garden. I will be searching the garden centres for seed next year

Grass fed organic meat accounts for a teeny % of meat sold. Most is from huge industrialised factory farms.

Caught a bit on the news the other night and what we should be doing is:
stop flying, using the car, reduce meat consumption, get rid of gas boilers. Which is a bit late for us as we have just replaced our boiler.

Actually none of these measures will have any real effect until we reduce the human population.

It’s unpalatable and most people will protect their right to a family even while they say they are concerned or worried .

Non of the ecomeasures posted will, in the long term, cancel out the carbon footprint of bringing another person into the world.

We all have the one thing that we’re not prepared to give up. Car, flight, meat, children - if that’s what you want what’s the difference?

Eglantine birthrates have fallen below replacement rate in many countries including most of Eastern and Western Europe and in Asia. 87 of the world's 188 countries are at replacement level or below.

The main area with above replacement level population rates are in sub-saharan Africa. worldpopulationreview.com/countries/total-fertility-rate/. Forecasts for peak population are falling already. Our grandchildren will probably live to see world population falling. The problem then will be the number of old people out numbering the young and how they can provide proper incomes and medical care.

We are already seeing that problem in this country with retirement ages being raised and older people encourage dto work beyond retirement age and hospitals and medical services struggling.

The Unired Nations estimate that world population will top 11 billion (currently 9billion) by 2100.

The estimated sustainable human population, where consumption vs renewal of resources is roughly equal, is around 2 billion.

Even if there is a reduction in future it will be too slow to affect the issues we face.

I’m sorry I don’t know how to do links but typing “sustainable world population” into Google will give you a wealth of information on this topic.

I know most people will find the thought of limiting people’s right to children difficult if not repugnant. And most would find it a personally impossible scenario.

But I really don’t see any other long term solution to our destruction of the. planet.

A lot of population specialists have challenged the UN figures and consider them to be too high and that peak population will be around 2050.

With nearly half of all countries having already reached the point where their birthrate is below replacement rate and another swathe very close to that point, I think the evidence favours those who consider the UN estimates too high.

I still believe that by the end of this century population figures will be stable or falling and by the end of the next century will have fallen significantly. To quote the UN itself Between 2019 and 2050, populations are projected to decrease by one per cent or more in 55 countries or areas, of which 26 may see a reduction of at least ten per cent. In China, for example, the population is projected to decrease by 31.4 million, or around 2.2 per cent, between 2019 and 2050.

The best way to limit the size of families is to raise living standards, I think that's pretty much agreed by everyone. When you can be 99% certain your two children will grow to adulthood you stop having five or six children in case some of them die. Raised living standards also means you don't need to exist at subsistence level and you don't need those six children to help work your farm and look after you when you're old.

Educating girls has also been shown to raise living standards. They have better jobs, earn more, marry later and have children later. Birth control obviously also plays its part.

I don’t think that will be a sufficient reduction for sustainability.

I was in China last year and the Chinese government have reversed previous policy and are now taking steps to ‘encourage’ a growth in population.

But as I said, people will find even the suggestion of population control very difficult. I know it can’t practically be done short of global domination.

I did find it interesting (?) encountering a demonstration in the town centre the other day that many of those who said they were committed to saving the planet were there with families of three or more.

However you look at it that’s a big long term carbon footprint.

It is not just a question of births, but deaths. The years of one child only policy in China has meant that the proportion of population under 25 is much lower than in older age groups www.populationpyramid.net/china/2019/ so even if these cohorts of the population have more than one child, this will not stop the population falling because the numbers dying in the older age groups will still outnumber the children being born.

I’m finding this an interesting discussion. Do you think a population of 9 billion or so is sustainable? How far will it fall below that if it does fall?

And whats the time scale? How long do we have to get it to sustainable levels? Is time on our side?

Gma29 You can buy compostable 50L bin bags on Amazon for 35p a bag (4.2 star reviews).
All-Green 50 Litre Biobag Compostable Swing Bin Liners with Composting Guide, 25 Bags www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005HF4EJQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_6hTODbKT6XNQT?tag=gransnetforum-21

There are 30L ones for 24p a bag with 4.5 star reviews.
ECO WAVE 100% Biodegradable and COMPOSTABLE BIN Liners, 30 litres, 50 BIOBAGS www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07JJ9PW3H/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_DtTODb4SDWQZM?tag=gransnetforum-21